Sid: My guest, Dr. Michael Brown has a new book, it’s called “A Queer Thing Happened to America,” it’s 500 pages, hardback book, it is literally three books in one it’s got every fact you need to understand what is happening to America; where it’s morality is being destroyed from the White House to Hollywood to reeducation in the schools and Christians are almost asleep. As a matter of fact I’ll go one step further, I happen to believe many pastors are supernaturally blinded to this issue. Dr. Brown, there are many people that say, “Wait a second, if someone was born homosexual who are you to change them?” “You can’t!” What would you say?
Mike: I would say first, even if someone was born homosexual God can change anyone to the core of their being, however the idea that someone is born gay is just more of the media hype; in fact there is no scientific evidence that there is such a thing as being born gay. I have a whole chapter in the book that’s called “Is Gay the New Black,” analyzing the argument, I was born that way. And I go through the quotes, the evidence on both sides, the arguments and I thought okay rather than rehash that, because a lot of it has been told in other places; and again let me say categorically that the reason that gay researchers and activists are still looking for a gay gene or still looking for a gay cause for homosexuality or excuse me a biological or genetic cause for homosexuality is because it hasn’t been found yet. And the concept is, if I can show that this is innate and immutable; in other words I was born this way and I can’t change; if I can show that then I’m entitled to civil rights the same as a black person, or a Hispanic person, the same as a man or a woman that is intern entitled to certain rights because this is who they are and they can’t change; this is the mentality so this is a very strong argument in the “Gay Civil Rights Movement.” Hey this is the new black, look at how blacks were discriminated against, look at terrible American History towards African Americans it’s the same thing towards the homosexual community. So I analyze this argument in great depth and I have other chapters that have taken on from other angles. But let’s look at it like this, aside from the fact that there is no evidence of some of this born homosexual, what we know is that people are born with certain predispositions; one person may be more predisposed to be an artist; one person may be more predisposed to be an athlete; the other person may be predisposed to be something else; and then other influences in life, society come in with child development could have come in from very early on. Most homosexual men and women that I know say that from their earliest memories this is who they have been. I understand that it’s very deep; I understand that it’s not a conscious choice that they made like I’m just going to be homosexual; they may have decided to act on their desires but this is very deep, in their own minds it’s as if they were born this way, it’s at the core of their being. So what I go through in the chapters there are scientists who argue there is a violent gene, there’s a ruthless gene, there’s an adultery gene, some have even claimed there’s a liberal gene, maybe they don’t like your show Sid because they have a liberal gene. You know I’m sorry honey, I didn’t mean to cheat on you but I had an adultery gene, it’s not my fault. Right! So what I go through in the book Sid is show that there are many behaviors that people find that may have some genetic contribution, obesity. What do we do? Do we have fat pride parades to celebrate obesity? Do we get fatter and fatter or do we work against it if we have a tendency to go in this direction; so I analyze the data and then I have one chapter in the book called “The Ex-gay Movement, Fact or Fiction? Because here’s the other thing and Sid pastors need to know that this is an area where they will come under sever attack. How dare you say an homosexual can change, that is the worse lie, that is the ugliest thing, that is the most tormenting thing, that’s like saying something like someone with blue eyes can change of green eyes. That’s like saying someone who is right handed can become left handed. It’s bigoted, it’s cruel, reparative therapy leads people to suicide, it’s destructive, you’ve got to accept me for who I am and stop trying to change me. So pastors if you don’t want to get involved politically, you don’t want to involved same sex marriages issues, you don’t want to get involved with any of those things, I’m just telling you the day is coming when you will no longer be allowed to say that a homosexual man or woman can be changed through the power of the gospel, such speech will be called intolerant and bigoted.
Sid: Okay, I personally have interviewed and met people that were homosexual their whole life and through the power of God, got set free. To me that destroys all those arguments. Tell me a couple stories like that.
Mike: Even if someone was born that way Sid, which again the evidence says that that is not the case, that’s the power of the gospel. And this is yet another reason that we need to recover the power of the gospel. Sid my late brother in law whom you knew, he was homosexual. My sister-in-law recently said, you can come out and share this publically, you can share his testimony. He was homosexual when he got saved Sid, he gave his whole life over to Jesus including his sexuality and said if I marry or not or whatever I belong to the Lord. And then when it was time to marry he found that he had heterosexual desires and he didn’t have homosexual desires. One man with a very powerful ministry to the homosexual community talked about when he got saved, he knew what was right, he was doing what was right, but he had some struggles still in his own life towards homosexuality and then he got reconciled with his father. Think of God using this; there had been a fractured relationship with his father in his case and when he reconciled with his father and his father hugged him he was instantly delivered and this is now for his life ever since; totally delivered from homosexual desires to being reconciled to his father through the power of the gospel!
Sid: Now I don’t know if there is any scientific data, but my experiences have been Mike that most people that are homosexual have father issues.
Mike: Yeah, here’s the scientific data, conservative Christian therapists will tell you that you are dead on exactly right. Pastor’s who counsel people will tell you, you are exactly right, the homosexual community will tell you you are crazy you are making it up; absolutely not. Hey look, we know the importance of mother father relationships, we know people who are violent, who are, angry, who are alcoholics; you go down the behavior cycles because of lack of a father or lack of a mother or broken relationship in the home; children are very impressionable and fragile in many ways and we do get affected. And I am sure that there is a homosexual man listening and says hey, this is who I have always been, I have a great relationship with my Dad, a great relationship with my Mom, I came from a happy home, I understand we’ll meet people like that but in many, many cases there are father issues. Which means, I sat with a local gay activist a few months ago Sid, had lunch with him and with tears coming down my cheeks I said to him, I just want you to know the love of the Father. One Psalmist, powerfully anointed Psalmist Sid has written to me and told me that when he sings about the love of the Father that homosexual men have been drawn to his meetings and have experienced deliverance, real deliverance by the power of God. Real deliverance as he has ministered the love of the Father they have been set free. And I know, I have worked with others that still struggle, just like a heterosexual man is struggling to be holy in his thoughts, that someone coming out of homosexuality is still struggling, I don’t want to feel condemned during the midst of a battle, but Sid, you and I know the power of the gospel.
Sid: I have met people that have been prayed for deliverance that were homosexual and when the demon was cast out of them even their walk was different.
Mike: Listen, why is it that people can accept demonic influences in other behaviors? Someone’s a heterosexual pornography addict and they get delivered from demons and their free. Someone’s addicted to drugs, they get delivered from demons, someone’s got a horrific fierce temper, they get deliver from demons and their free. Why can’t we recognize that this can happen with homosexuality too? It’s not every person. I was in Israel Sid, talking to a top national leader and he talked to me about some men in his congregation and he said that he watched them in front of his eyes and get truly delivered, he said and they are free. They are different, they are fully heterosexual.
Sid: Let me ask you a question. What is the theological basis of homosexual and lesbian churches? I don’t get it?
Mike: …you can’t stick your head in the sand as if it doesn’t exist. There ‘s a leading Baptist church in Charlotte in one of the most prosperous areas in the city, wealthy church almost 2,000 members a couple of years ago. Southern Baptist Sid, they came out and said, “We are now ordaining practicing homosexuals in our church in ministry. So here are some of the arguments. No. 1, the church has always misread the Bible, it used the Bible to justify slavery,
Sid: But, wait a second, it doesn’t matter that argument, what matters is what the literal word of God says. There’s’ no wiggle room Mike, there’s none!
Mike: Here’s the argument that there are only a few passages in the Bible that address homosexuality and when they are rightly understood you’ll either see that they apply homosexual prostitution or abuse relationships or something else. For example a gay person would say to you alright, Leviticus 18 says an abomination for man to lie with a man. There are other things that an abomination in the torah, even shellfish is an abomination and various other things…
Sid: What’s your answer to that?
Mike: Oh, my answer is very simple that there are certain things that are universal abominations for all time for all peoples like the sexual sins listed in Leviticus 18 which it also include incest and bestiality that were of such seriousness to God that he judged the Canaanites and the Egyptians for them and he said these were abominations for all people. There were other things that were given to Israel to keep Israel separate for the nation, where
God said this is detestable or an abomination for you.