SID: Hello, Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. And I have to tell you I have been so looking forward to this interview. My guest is Surprise Sithole, and Surprise, how did you get the name “Surprise”?

SURPRISE: I got the name because of this spot here on my side (points to head).

SID: I see it.

SURPRISE: Yes, when I was born, they were not expecting to have somebody with gray hair coming out.

SID: That’s unusual in Africa.

SURPRISE: Yes. Yes, yes.  So when I was coming they say “Oh! It’s a Surprise.”

SID: I see. Now when you were six months old, a dog ripped your eye out. Tell us about that.

SURPRISE: Yes. That’s why you see this scar here. You can see the scar. When I was six months, old a dog was eating the food and then I was just approaching, crawling to the dog food, and the dog ripped, bite me here and the eye fall out.

SID: Completely out of your body?

SURPRISE: Completely out. So my mother with a piece of cloth run and get the eye and put it back, and tied it here, and it stayed there for two weeks. And after the two weeks they opened and my eyes were fine.

SID: Now you were born in Mozambique?

SURPRISE: I was born in Mozambique, yes.

SID: You have to understand, Surprise came from more generations of witch doctors than he can remember. But when you were young man, you heard a voice. Tell me about that.

SURPRISE: Yes. When I was a young man, I heard a voice. We were sleeping in a small mud hut, and the voice was so loud. “Surprise, Surprise, wake up! Move out from your village. Surprise, Surprise, wake up. Move from your village.” Well when I woke up my father and my mother, they were sleeping. I woke up. “Who is this one that is speaking?” “Move from your village. If you don’t move, you die. Move from your village. If you don’t move you die.” I woke up. I went to the house of my friend, Garfar, that night. And I told Garfar what had happened to me. I said, “I’m going away from the village.” Garfar said to me, “I will go with you wherever you go.” Okay, so we took off. It was a very small trail in the jungle; forest is where we were living, a lot of mosquitoes, a lot of malaria bugs, and all kinds of that stuff. So we started walking on a small trail. We got lost. We stayed in the jungle for two weeks. Later on, we are there at the bottom of Malawi in a village called Villanova. So when we appeared there, there was a man that he had a dream. His name, this man is Lucas. This man had a dream. “Go to one of the trees, acacia tree. Go to that acacia tree. You will see two boys coming from the jungle. Get them into your house.” And then this man, the following day after his dream, he went to that tree. And while he was on that tree, we were coming near, me and my friend, Garfar. And then he said to us, “I was just here to wait for you. Let’s go to my house.”

SID: I mean this is pretty supernatural! He hears a voice. He leaves his home. A man meets him. Did this man know Jesus?

SURPRISE: Yes, he was a Christian.

SID: He led you to know Jesus.

SURPRISE: The following day, yes.

SID: And what he found out is if he had not been obedient and left his house, what happened to everyone in your house?

SURPRISE: This is what happened. The following day, we gave our life to Jesus before that man, Mr. Lucas. And then because we were two weeks in the jungle; now later on the fisherman was just going to Malawi to sell the fish, and he said, in the village, such and such family they all died. How they died, the village people took a bile of crocodile. The bile of crocodile is very poisonous. They put it into the maze meal. They mixed it with the bile of crocodile. They take the food to give to my family.

SID: So your family was all poisoned.

SURPRISE: Yes, they were.

SID: If you had lived there, you would have been poisoned.

SURPRISE: I like to eat, so…

SID: So get this. A voice tells him to leave. What did you…?  Coming from all those generations of witch doctors, had anyone told you about Jesus before this?

SURPRISE: Before then, we didn’t know anything about Jesus, no.

SID: Are you the first one in your family?

SURPRISE: I’m first generation, yes, believer.

SID: Okay. You told me that you had a dream or almost a vision just before you received Jesus. Tell me about that.

SURPRISE: The dream was a vision. When Mr. Lucas was telling us about the Creation, he was explaining the Creation said the Creation, so, so, so. And then he started talking a little bit about the plan of God. So suddenly, I saw my eyes was just like changing, not in there any more. So I was seeing I was in the ledge. And this was the Hell. And then I’m ready to go into it. So then I started crying and shaking. And Mr. Lucas said, “No, as long as you breathe you have a chance.”

SID: How did you even know about Hell?

SURPRISE: Oh, well he was talking, while he was talking the plan of God.

SID: What did see with your eyes?

SURPRISE: What I really saw in my eyes, I was standing like in this place. It was on the ledge and this is very deep, steep, something and the smoke is coming out, and the flames of fires coming out, and then I was ready my life to go into it. So then I started shaking.

SID: So you were like being pushed over a ledge.

SURPRISE: Yes.

SID: Did you feel like it was real? Was it like flames of fire?

SURPRISE: Well I felt that I was shaking and crying tear down.

SID: Now today, Surprise, remember how he got his name; he was a big surprise. Africans in Malawi, in Mozambique, they don’t have gray hair when they’re born like that. And he has prayed for eight people that were dead that have come back to life. His associates have prayed for over a hundred. And I understand they don’t even count someone that they were dead and they came back to life unless they were dead for a while. Tell me what they look for to count someone as dead.

SURPRISE: At least a day.

SID: At least a day they have to be dead.

SURPRISE: At least a day because some people just had a heart attack, fainting.

SID: Okay. I want to find out the first time he prayed for a dead person that came back to life. Don’t go away. We’ll be back.

Matt:  Yeah, Sid we were having a morning meeting that day and later a night meeting.  It was in the morning service I was standing in worship and the spot next to me on my left side was empty there was no one sitting there.  Suddenly during the worship time I felt a burning heat coming from my left side and I thought to myself at first there is a pillar of fire standing next to me in the room.  And I put my hand out to the left and as my hand went into the air the air was burning hot, it was a different temperature than the other air; then I pulled my hand out and it got cold, put my hand in it got hot again.  And then the Holy Spirit spoke to me, He said, “I’ve sent a seraphim fiery angel into the meeting today.”  So then God moved powerfully during that service.  But then later that night we were coming back to the church; I was in the restaurant with the Pastor and few other people before the service started and my body started getting hot again and I took my jacket off and I just was feeling this tremendous heat.  When we walked into the church I stood up to preach and when I went to open up my mouth God literally struck me mute.  He would not let me talk and I’m standing there in front of a crowd packed out church full of people and I go to talk you know and they’re waiting for me to say something but no words are coming out.  I totally lose the ability to speak and lasted for about two hours.  As I stood there on the platform behind the pulpit that seraphim angel came into the meeting and the fire of God started to feel the atmosphere.  The physical temperature got so dramatically hot, people started taking off their extra layers of clothes, they started opening up the doors the windows.  And for two hours the tangible fire of God moved through that church.  People were set free, they were purged, they were delivered.  It was a visitation of the fire of God.

Sid:  Is that sort of encounter going to be happening more and more because we’re really in the last of the last days right now.  What is God showing you that will be happening on planet earth as far as the supernatural?

Matt:  Well, you know God has a vision and His vision is of the whole earth will be covered with knowledge of the Glory of God.  And I believe as time accelerates, as we get closer to the end there is an acceleration happening; you see it all around.  You see it even in what’s happening in nature and I think you know that it’s good to mention you know we see a lot of earthquakes, we see a lot of lot of tornadoes; we see these crazy tumultuous things happening within nature itself.  It’s a sign that it’s accelerating to the point of Christ return because all of nature is groaning for the manifestation of the sons of God.  And when we talk about the sons of God were talking about the church.  And you know when you study that in the Greek son of God means, mature son; so when we talk about the earth being covered with the Glory were talking about God raising up in the last days as time is accelerating right now.  God is raising up mature sons, mature daughters who will know how to walk in the Spirit; how to be lead by the Spirit; how to walk in the Glory; how to live in the Glory; how to release the Glory and how to see how God’s presence and power literally be released over nations; over regions; over whole aspects of society.  And I believe that these days of acceleration we’re going to see an acceleration of His Glory an acceleration of people really being lead by the Holy Spirit; walking in the power of the Spirit because these are the mature sons.

Sid:  Now you told me that we’re coming into, for lack of a better words a choice of people are going to have to choose to get rid of the giants in their life or fall to these giants.  I mean there’s no in between and especially with there’s going to be a transition of spiritual leaders.  What did God show you?

Matt:  Yeah, we are in a very I want to say crucial time right now, crucial time, almost life and death in some situations.  There are right I believe right now leaders, spiritual leaders, people in the body; we are at a point of facing our giants.  Every person will have some sort of giant in their life; it could be some area of their personality that they are dealing with; an area of their flesh; it could be a trial, a temptation and an issue; a character issue.  It could be any number of things but the Lord is calling us right now to face our giants head on.  If we will face our giants head on like David confronted Goliath there will be, for those who will make the choice confront their giants, deal with their giants and by God’s power see those things taken down in their life.  After David defeated the giant the crown of authority of kingship was brought to David.  His choice to confront the giant literally drew the crown of promotion into his life and brought him to his next level of fulfillment of His destiny.  So as people right now make the choice to face their giants, deal with their issues; deal with their issues in private with the Lord, there will be a promotion and an increase drawn to them in their life.  But for those who choose not to deal with their giants there will be consequences for that.

Sid:  Now one of the things that you shared earlier this week is you had a private visitation just before Oral Roberts promotion to heaven in which he taught you about love and laid hands for a special impartation.  Tell me an example of what’s been happening in your life.  For instance the woman in Wales that was so skeptical how did love affect that healing?

Matt:  Yes, you know Sid, we’ve seen love be the key, the key for the real genuine power of God, this woman, you know we were in a meeting and the altar was filled with people, we were praying for the sick and the Lord showed me this woman sitting way back in her chair.  And he told me to go pray for her.  And I said, “Lord, I said if she needed prayer she would up here at the altar, I don’t think she wants prayer, she is sitting down.”  And God said, “Go pray for her.”  So I left the altar and I walked back to where she was sitting and I looked down at her and I said, “Can I pray for you?”  And she looked up at me and she said, “No!  I don’t want you to pray for me and she was angry and mean and bitter and just had a lot of stuff going on.”  And I looked up at God and I said, “God, I told you she didn’t want prayer.”  And the Lord just again spoke to me, “Pray for her.”  So as I looked at her again and I said, “Can I pray for you?”  She began to tell me all of the sickness that was in her body and she kept going on and on and on.  And she said, “I’ve had every person pray for me, I’ve gone to the doctors, I even had this part of my organ taken out of my body and I still have all the pain, I still have all the sickness that the doctors can’t help me, God won’t heal me.” And she was just in a very depressed, very dark place, so I just closed my eyes and I started praying in the Spirit because I had to get out of the natural, if I let myself get caught in where this woman was, it would hinder me from being able to pray for her.  So I closed my eyes, started praying in the Spirit, as I was praying I the Spirit suddenly in my heart I started to feel this love rise up in me.  I didn’t care if this woman was telling me off, if she wanted to slap me, all’s I could feel and I literally felt it was God’s love for her.  His heart, His overwhelming love for this woman and the power of God was released on her.  I mean she stood there with her eyes open; she wouldn’t even bow her head to pray.  But you what God loved her so much and he saw through all of the issues of her life, he saw the hurt in her heart and the pain in her heart and you know what?  His love overcame it all, and suddenly this power of God came upon her and that woman was totally healed.  And not only was she healed, but she started laughing, she started laughing and crying and she said to me, “All the pain is gone,” she said, “But not only is the pain gone I could feel the presence of God again and I haven’t felt Him in five years, I felt so dead I’ve haven’t felt alive, I haven’t felt God in five years and I feel His presence throughout all of my being right now.”  So the Lord, not only healed her but He revived her, stored her and it flowed out of God’s love.

Sid:  …Matt, very briefly the anointing is so strong I’m tell you in the Name of Jesus oppression is leaving people, you must leave you spirit of oppression right now.  Matt pray for healing, for miracles right now.

Matt:  Thank you Lord; Father, I thank you right now that you’re anointing is going over the airwaves your tangible presence, we take authority over sickness, we take authority over oppression, over depression, Lord over every form of sickness and disease and infirmity and we say in the Name of Jesus Christ, be healed, be loosed from your infirmity, be loosed from that depression, be loosed into God’s healing and wholeness and freedom, in Jesus Name.  We declare it over you now.  Thank you Lord.

Sid:  There are people; it’s especially a spirit of oppression Matt.  And we agree two or more agree touching anyone thing and in Jesus Name we agree that back has just been healed and that neck has just been healed.  But we agree in Jesus Name you spirit of oppression you must get off of people right now.

Sid:  Now, my guest, Chuck Pierce had a revelation from God when he was eighteen, which has affected his entire life.  Based on these revelations he was able to break off years maybe centuries of vexation on his family and curses on his family; and came into all this revelation.  But on yesterday’s broadcast I said, “I was going to tell everyone something that will astound them; you revealed that God showed you that by 2016 China will dominate the economy and  not just in the United States, but even worldwide.”  And I said to you “How could that be Chuck?  China is not particularly a friend of Israel and you said to me.

Chuck:  They will be one of the greatest nations that see the investment of Israel for a season.  Starting in 20 by 2016 through 2026 they will see that Israel teaches them how to prosper in days ahead.

Sid:  Well, you know there are many people that are one issue people in elections.  Some people, there one issue is their pocketbook, other people there one issue is moral issues such as homosexuality, or abortion and rightfully so I might say.  But I’m becoming more and more aware that if someone is a one issue voter that one issue must be does that one woman have a grasp of the blessings of God or the curses of God as a result of being a friend of Israel?

Chuck:   Sid, look how Germany has made recovery, look how they moved forward because they too have recognized and come into a measure of reconciliation with Israel.  I’m going to tell you you’re going have to tell you’re going to have to look and say how do we align?  If not, see what’s happening now it’s going to be the Middle East, it use to be Israel in the Middle East, now it’s going to be the Middle East against Israel and you’re going to have to determine which group you’re running with.  Now that’s just how simple it is, and you’re going to have to look at nations and how there aligning around Israel because the book of Ephesians says, all nations will reconcile around Israel.

Sid:  What do you see Chuck if I might be bold enough to ask you, for the next five years in the United States of America?

Chuck:  Well, I see a… it’s almost like a tug-a-war.  I see a pulling apart, but this isn’t like what we’ve seen in the past.  I see a state by state by state people trying, leaders trying to determine how will they profit, the issue will become profit ability, but you can only profit, come into a true profit, profit ability through your understanding of covenants.  So you’re going to see state by state by state determining how they’re going align in trade agreements in days ahead and that’s going to affect everyone in their entire state.

Sid:  So, if I’m hearing you right, what you’re saying is it’s not an issue of the United States of America, it’s an issue even of individual states as to whether they’re going to align covenantally with God by being a blessing to Israel or not align covenantally with God.

Chuck:  See Sid that goes back to your initial statement, but if a curse was neutralized from civil war era back to slavery then why are seeing this pulling apart?  Well, we’re now going to hit the real root and what you’re going to find out now in your particular territory is how is the church first of all in that territory aligning with God’s covenant plan with Israel.  And some of you are going to be very surprised that some of the denominations that were evangelical in the last season really weren’t pro Israel and then you’re going to see how the economy and the government is aligning with Israel.  And what it’s going to do is it’s going to start pulling a nation apart again.  So that in the nutshell is what; it’s almost like pause and think about it, we are coming into the greatest tug-a-war our nation has known since probably the civil war.  And this time it’s over a nation called Israel, but it’s really about the God of Israel.

Sid:  And in the midst of this tugging as you put it, is it possible for individual Christians to be blessed, in the midst of this chaos?

Chuck:  Listen, I am telling you the favor of God’s going to come down on God’s people, the favor of God’s going to rest on us, the favor of God.  We’ll have favor with the world; Jesus grew in stature with God and man for a season.  We are coming into a place of new types of favor, but in the midst of it and we’re going to come into a new supernatural awareness.  That’s another reason I wrote this book, “A Time to Defeat the Devil,” we are unaware of the supernatural activity ahead in the next five years.  So to specifically answer your question, the next five years are, we enter into a supernatural dimension where evil expression will seen and heard as well as a super abundant grace will be displayed in the earth, a miracle working grace.

Sid:  But, you know what, it’s time for believer’s to break off the shackles of their vexation, of their curses, and that’s what you teach in this book and move into the power of Passover.  I mean there are amazing things you talk about the power of the Passover Blood.

Chuck:  Well, see the thing about it is we have to understand His blood is supernatural, and the way we express it; and now here’s the thing, now God gave me this book Sid.  He showed me righteous Lot’s spirit got vexed by being in a Sodom and Gomorrah.  And remember Abraham went to war and he went into intercession, but he couldn’t change the atmosphere of Sodom and Gomorrah.  And so in the midst of it what I saw was as times change, our spirit man can become vexed again, it doesn’t mean we’re not a righteous people; it doesn’t mean that God doesn’t have a way of escape for us.  What it means is we can become vexed so that our surroundings are controlling us.  So in this book I talk about how to get your spirit free, very few books ever talk about how to get your spirit free; they talk about how to restore your soul but not renew your spirit.  This book is about spirit renewal because we are coming into a season of the spirit realm; both dark and the Holy Spirit manifesting in God’s people again.

Sid:  I believe that and this is why and you know a lot of people don’t understand why I emphasis the supernatural so much, because I don’t see how a man or a woman can fulfill their destiny unless they move in the supernatural of God.  And if they don’t move in the supernatural of God we even know from scriptures they’re going to move in a counterfeit; much easier to move in a counterfeit if you’ve never seen the real thing.

Chuck:  Well, it’s called Sid, we forget the anti-Christ Spirit goal is to rule the pulpit, and I’m going to tell you what, we’ll get into this religious thing, but we’ll never come into the power of being the sons and daughters God’s made us to be.  And He’s saying I want your spirit liberated, I want your spirit vibrant, I want your spirit renewed so that Holy Spirit can manifest in you and you can do the greater works than what I did.

Sid:  What is your desire for people that read your new book “Time to Defeat the Devil?”

Chuck:  To know the Glory of God and why would I say that?  Because I don’t just go to war with the devil, I mean I think we live in a world that is decaying and you can start looking for all the devils and their everywhere.  What I want people to understand is the Glory of God.  I feel like David understood the Glory of God therefore he knew when the Glory of God left or when it ebbed from him.  I want you as you read this book to renew your spirit so that the Glory of God is so vibrant in your spirit where you sense His presence.  Therefore when the enemy enters into your domain you can say, “Be gone in the name of Jesus.”

Sid:  Well, were coming into those times, were coming to such a…as a matter of fact I’ve been feeling the Glory of God just as I said that I found that someone was just healed someone with a pain in their neck has just been healed in Jesus Name.  Someone with a pain in their back has just been healed in Jesus Name, someone with a pain in their arm; pains are gone now in Jesus Name; that’s that Passover blood.  But you need this revelation; there are few prophets that have end time revelation, like Chuck Pierce.

Mark:  Well, Sid I got into dreams because I met a remarkable individual.  I was up in Toronto teaching…

Sid:  No but even before you met him, what was your attitude towards your own dreams?  Were you like me or did you try to understand them or what did you do?

Mark:   Well, I never took them seriously; I just figured it was all pizza you know because it was all just…

Sid:  Oh, you were like me.

Mark:  Just a dream.

Sid:  Just, I don’t eat pizza anymore but that’s okay I can dream about it, go ahead bad joke.

Mark:  Okay and I just didn’t take them seriously because they weren’t rational, they weren’t logical and for me everything had to be logic and ration and reason.

Sid:  Okay, me to that is my biggest asset and my biggest liability but go ahead.

Mark:   Well, exactly when God anoints our reasoning then He can clean it up.

Sid:  Okay, so how did this door open to you so to speak of understanding dreams?

Mark:  Well, I was doing a seminar up in the Toronto area, my seminar on “How to Hear God’s Voice” got done at 5:00 and I heard that Herman Riffle was in the area doing a seminar on dream interpretation, Christian dream interpretation and I found out where he was, he wasn’t very far away.  I went over for the evening session and got introduced to a statesman in the Body of Christ who had walked with dreams for years and years and was teaching principals for how to hear God speak to you through your dreams.

Sid:  Tell me a bit about this because he intrigues me, this Herman Riffle, he’s in Heaven now but tell me about him.

Mark:  Well, he was a Baptist Pastor and he got interested in dreams so he went and got some training on dreams.  He worked with scriptures and he wrote several books on dreams.  He is now, he was ninety-three when he died a year or two ago.  But the Lord spoke to him through dreams, counseled him through dreams, guided him through dreams and we were so intrigued that we brought the person to our Bible School and him teach us and taped him teaching us on dreams many many years ago.

Sid:  Well it was actually as I understand it he had a dream that changed his destiny, he would have never lived to ninety three if he didn’t have this dream and understand it; tell me about it.

Mark:   Well, he had a lot of dreams, one of the dreams that he shares in his book is he’s walking along the side of mountain on narrow path with his family behind him and all of a sudden the path crumbles beneath him and he and his family go down to destruction.  And he wakes up and journals the body and says, “Lord, what does this dream mean?”  And the Lord said this he said, “Herman this private fantasy life that your engaged in, that you think is so carefully controlled, He said, if you do not get off this path that you’re on it’s going to take you and your family down to destruction.  And so Herman repented, he got off that path, he stayed faithful to his wife, the two of them were married and like I said, he died in 1998, he died at 93 years of age.

Sid:  I have no doubt that he would have died prematurely if he did not have the dream and the understanding.

Mark:  Yeah, wonderful counsel from the Wonderful Counselor correcting him keeping him on the path of life.

Sid:  After you began to study his lifetime of revelations on understanding dreams how long did it take you to start understanding your dreams?

Mark:  Well, I was fortunate to be in a Bible School where I got a group of half a dozen, dozen people around me and we just got together weekly and we began to share our dreams and study dreams in scripture.  And it really speeds up your growth if you can do it with a group and so we spent about six months, we did three months of training and then three more months of just practicum.  Just coming together and working with our dreams as a group interpreting them together and then at the end of that six months we all felt confident that we were able to get God’s message to us through those dreams.

Sid:  Now you yourself had a reoccurring dream.  And first of all if you have a reoccurring dream what does that mean to you?

Mark:   Well, that means you didn’t hear the message the first time the dream talked to you.

Sid:  Oops.  Ha-ha.

Mark:  Same reason your mother repeats herself or you repeat yourself to your children when they didn’t get it the first time.  And so I had reoccurring dream for about fifteen years of my life and that I had had a stroke in the dream and I would walk up paralyzed, feeling I had had a stroke, I felt bloated, my arms and head and face.  And then I had the elders pray for me once for deliverance prayer what came out was an actual demon of fear of stroke and I had picked that up when somewhere about the age of eight to ten years of age.  I was very close to my grandfather, he died very unexpectedly instantaneously of what I perceived to be a stroke.  It wasn’t quite correct, but that was my childhood perception and I was traumatized by that and demons are not gentlemen so they entered, a demon of fear of stroke entered during that trauma.  And I had a fear of having a stroke for years; it showed up as a reoccurring dream in my heart showing that I had a wound in my heart that needed prayer ministry.  Once the elders prayed the deliverance prayer that demon came out with that same manifestation that I had in the dream.  My wife was in the livingroom, she said that it looked like I was having a stroke when my face was bloated, my tongue was bloated, and it came out and it came out and now twenty to twenty-five years and I’ve never had that dream since then.

Sid:  Mark, what is more important to me is not that you got this revelation, not that you get dreams every week and understand, really understand what God is saying every week.  But can I, can my Mishpochah do the same thing?

Mark:  Yes, every single one that’s listening, you can learn to hear God through your dreams, you can learn to receive His wonderful counsel because He says that He counsels us a night.

Sid:  Wait a second you have dreams at least once a week where God speaks to you so clearly.

Mark:  Yes.

Sid:  You’re telling me that everyone can, once a week now.

Mark:  Absolutely, I guarantee it.

Sid:  Okay, you heard that Mishpochah he guarantees it, I got it out of him.

Mark:  I can give them four or five things that they can do during this series and if they do those four or five things I will guarantee that they will have dreams every week from God where the Wonderful Counselor is giving them counsel to improve the quality of their lives.

Sid:  Now you have many many testimonies of people that have taken your course and what’s happened to them.  Tell me about one person.

Mark:   Alright I’m going to tell you about a lady Susan Perniglia, she developed a Christian Dance School out of hearing God’s voice out of both dreams and also journaling about the dream.  Her husband Salvatore was taking courses with us and they got married, he shared the courses with her and she had a triple dream experience where, she was in nursing school, trained to be a nurse and the Lord redirected her through those three dreams.  She didn’t get the message the first time or the second time, so he made it very clear the third time and she changed her course.  So she got out of nursing school and what the Lord told her that she should become a dancer for Him and set up a dance school.  And that’s what the dream said, so she went ahead, set up a dance school as a result of that.  And a testimony she shares back a couple of years ago it’s called a King and a testimony.  She shares back a couple of years ago, it’s called the Kings dancers, it had grown from four students to One hundred Sixty-five students.  She had nine staff teachers who was teaching it and four different locations in the Albany, New York region.  They offered a variety of dances like ballet, tap, Irish Step, Hip Hop, Flag dancing, banner dancing and prophetic drama.  And all of that was it came out of a triple dream experience where God redirected her and said, “No nursing is not what I called you to, I have called you to be a dancer and to train dancers.”  And she said, “It’s been miraculous how the Lord has anointed it, they’ve done dance for both churches and secular situations.”

Sid: You know Mark the thing that’s crossing my mind right now is in these tense economic times that we’re living in; I believe that scripture is true that says “The wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.”  And what would happen if God were go give a dream to those that are listening right now, redirect their path and in bad times they would do terrific.

Mark:  He wants to do that, He’s dying to do that, He died literally on Calvary so that he could restore that kind of relationship and give that kind of counsel to his children day by day, week by week and month by month.

John:  Sure, sure.  Well, you know the first thing I noticed was all the homes was represented in the Gospel; all the miracles that Jesus did from the wedding feast at Cana to you know visiting Simon the leper or Zaccheus in his house or all the homes there and of course there was Pentecost.  I really began reexamining the New Testament and one of the things that I noticed was that none of the letters of the New Testament were addressed to leadership, they weren’t addressed to the pastors or the elders or whatever, it was addressed to the church at.  You know when Paul wrote his letters it was addressed to everybody.  And I also saw that when they were problems in the New Testament churches Paul did not say, now you elders should take care of this problem.  For instance in 1^st Corinthians 5 there’s a situation where a man has an illicit relationship with his stepmother and Paul says, and he chastises the whole church, he says you all should have dealt with this.  And then in the very next chapter he talks about two brothers who were suing one another and he says, “This should be settled within the church, the whole body should have handled this.  And so that got me thinking, and so when I started doing the research I realized that for the first nearly 300 years the Church was exclusively in home and that was in times of persecution and times when there wasn’t much persecution within the Roman Empire.  But then in 313, in the year 313 the Emperor Constantine issued an edict that legalized Christianity and over the next few decades what happened was that they began taking over the pagan temples which were set up in the auditorium style and building other buildings, so basically taking over a lot of the pagan temples and turning them into churches.  And Constantine and his successors then called people out of the houses into these former pagan temples into the auditoriums structure that we have today and we’ve been basically stuck in that same structure for seventeen hundred years.  Now what it did was it changed the nature of the relationship from depending on my brother or sister to help disciple me to my relationship with a building, my relationship with a paid clergy, my relationship with a program from that proceeded forth from that building.  And so it started to kill the relationship aspects of Christianity that had begun you know in the home and I’d have to go clear back to Adam and Eve and I’d go back to even Genesis when the Lord appeared to Abraham.  You know when He said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I’m about to do to Sodom and Gomorrah because I know that he is going to train up his children after him?  And then you can see all the way through there’s homes.  And I started realizing this is larger than saying “Oh, this is the way they did it in the first church; this is Genesis through Revelation.  And when we came out of that and came and into what I call the pyramid structure of the traditional church where there is a one head a pastor designated as the one who will be the font of God’s wisdom it made the gifts in the Body actually shut down.  They had no more place to function because they had to be silent and all face the same direction; and all listen to this one person you know be the you know be the spout of God’s wisdom for the day.  Where as in the home church when you’re all meeting together Paul said in 1^st Corinthians 14:26 “How is it brethren when you come together everyone of you has a Psalm a doctrine, a revelation, gifts of the Spirit.”  And so we have come 1700 years in that structure and that’s why in my journey when I looked all over the world, even though churches would say, we’re different in reality they weren’t.  They were all built around the building, the hierarchy and the structure that is just kills true relationships.

Sid:  Okay, how does what you’re saying differ from a good church with cell groups?

John:  Sure cell groups, there’s a huge difference between cell groups and house churches.  One of the main differences is that a cell group is still offered as a program as an option for the members of the congregation.  The main meeting is still the large congregational meeting say on Sunday.  Cells are offered as another program just like the neighborhood outreach, just like Sunday school, you know just like the Singles program and so cells are presented as another thing to become involved in.  In house church, each house church is independent; each house church stands on its own two feet.  Each house church stands on its own two feet; each house church takes care of its own people.  Now we may come together with other house churches and have a congregational style meeting, because you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  There are large congregational style meetings even in the book of Acts Chapter four after Peter and John were chastised by the leaders they called everybody together.  So there are those times for those meetings, but that’s the exception rather than the rule. so cell churches are a program from a traditional church but a house church is an independent entity all by itself.

Sid:  Now, one of the things that intrigue me is the shape that a lot of your groups take, for instance you have one group that meets I think a couple times a month or once a month at Starbucks rather than the home.  Tell me about that.

John:  Ha-ha, in Fresno, California our affiliate there meets in a Starbucks every other Sunday and what really started out as an outreach one of the families in there had a son whose incarcerated in prison and would have different friends that he would meet in prison while he’s serving his term be released and after he led them to the Lord in prison, but have nowhere to go.  And often times these people would go to a living room of a stranger and they certainly would not darken the door of a traditional church.  And so they came up with the idea of why don’t we just be there a couple times a month in a Starbucks on a Sunday morning; and will pray for one another and will see what the Lord is saying and we’ll use it as a means to bring unchurched or dechurched people or people who don’t even know the Lord and bring them in to what we’re doing and hopefully lead them to the Lord.  So it really began as an outreach and a means of discipleship and I like that term unchurched or dechurched because we have a lot of both all over the world.

Sid:  Now another thing that intrigues me is out of the relationships, out of this desire for intimacy with God, hearing God’s voice, and relationships with one another miracles are the natural thing that occurs.  Tell me some miracles that are going on; I understand you have one house church that had someone that was raised from the dead.

John:  Let me tell you about one that’s associated in India with a five year old boy and people say, well that happened in India.  Well, I’ll tell you what, I could tell you a story of Naples, Florida of a young man who had his leg grow out a ½ inch or ¾ of an inch; he’d been in a car wreck and you know it wasn’t so much that I laid hands on this young man, talk about miracles here in the states.  But other members of other teenagers who knew him laid hands on him and they watched the Lord grow this boy’s injured leg out and become straight and the same length as the other and he went leaping and dancing around the room.

Sid:  He was headed for surgery and they didn’t have to operate.

John:  He was headed for surgery, he had been in a car accident, had his leg crushed and they said, “You know we’ve got to wait a little bit until you grow a little bit to do this.  And the only reason I slip this in here Sid, because people have the idea of you know we’re going to meet in the living room and nothing spectacular happens.  They have to understand that when Christ lives in you and you really understand, that anything can happen and that the Lord takes pleasure in moving through the average, quote unquote Christian.  You start thinking what can be, how might the Lord use me.  And that was exactly the case in Deli India with a little boy named, Argon and Argon Doss was his name and this happened in 2001.  And about 6:00 in the evening Argon walked under a live powerline that caught him right behind his left ear and electrocuted him and killed him.  And his parents took him to the clinic where they worked on him for two hours and finally they just gave up and they said, “I’m sorry your five year old, your little boy is dead.  And fortunately the parents were part of a small house church, small group of strong believers and they said, “Man can’t do it through his means, then we’re going to call our church together.  They took his body back to their house and gathered the people together; by the time they could gather everyone together and everything it was 10:00 in the evening.  But one of the ladies, the main lady who came was a lady a 60 year old widow named Sovetre; I want to say her name right.  Sovetre and she’s of the Dalet which is the untouchable in the traditional society.   She was a street sweeper and spent all her life as a street sweeper, but she was a main one who led the prayer and they prayed for Argon from 10:00 in the evening until 4:00AM and finally at 4:00AM suddenly Argon just took a breath and sat up.  Completely normal in every way, he still has a scar behind his left ear, but he was raised from the dead, it’s because of this little house church said, “You know what, we’ll just pray and worship God and really say that Argon time on the earth is not finished and they were determined and after six hours of prayer and worship the Lord brought him back to life.  And it was interesting my friend who went there and confirmed this who is also in house church found out when he was talking to this little street sweeper who headed up the prayer team and he said, “By the way, he said in the last six years that you’ve been a Christian you know how many dead people have you seen raised?”  And she answered quietly sixteen.

Sid:  You know the change that God told you would occur over the next few years where we wouldn’t recognize America?  I believe we won’t recognize Christianity because it will be closer to the book of Acts than what it is now.

Kevin:  Well, it’s pretty simple I was just hungry, very, very hungry.  I wanted to experience all that God had available for me and I wanted to be part of changing the world in some way.  I wanted to make a difference in people’s lives.

Sid:  I know, but you’re a mature pastor now, successful pastor, a Bible School Graduate, why would you go into a classroom with a lot of teenagers, a few older people, but why would you do that?  Wasn’t that kind of humbling?

Kevin:  Well, it wasn’t humbling because it was a result of hunger and there was food available that I’d not tasted yet and I heard a drum beat.  I heard you know that there was a availability that everybody could do this stuff and I had been trained that you know everybody gets to play.  You know John Wimber taught me for years that everybody gets to play, but it looked like not everybody got to play because God’s giftings only sort of came on specially gifted people.  And I was hearing a message from Bethel, from Bill Johnson that not only does everybody get to play but that everybody is playing up there and everybody’s healing the sick and doing these kinds of things and changing the world.  And I’m only going to live once, I want to get everything I can and I want to walk into my destiny; so it wasn’t really sacrifice so much as it was passion.

Sid:  Okay, well Kevin I understand by what you did you demonstrated the huge hunger you had for God.  What advice would you give to someone that said, “I want to be hungry for God,” but their kind of passive, what can get them hungry for God?

Kevin:  Well, our Pastor Bill Johnson says it like this, “You get hungry in the Kingdom by eating, you get hungry in the natural by not eating, but you get hungry in the Kingdom by eating.”  And I would just encourage people that if they want to step into the supernatural lifestyle that’s available in the Kingdom that they just start hungering after it.  Read the book, get the resources, go to the conferences get the impartations from the people that are already walking in this so that they get equipped, they get empowered and they get activated.

Sid:  Well, I believe that if someone reads your book, “Unlocking Heaven” that hunger, when they see what did with your life, and of course what you do is you don’t keep it to yourself.  You share keys that I’ve never seen before.  Actually Holy Spirit showed it to me and I walked away from it; you talk about the key of singing over someone; I mean no one teaches on that; for the key of how to walk in supernatural joy and you say things about that I’ve never seen before.  In fact I’ll tell you an interesting story, years ago I use to lay hands on the sick and I would find myself sometimes when I was standing in front of someone I would sing over them.  And I would find that the power would increase.  So I kept it up and then I started working in what is known as Words of Knowledge so I stopped laying hands on the sick and I stopped the singing.  But I think I’m going to start the singing again.

Kevin:  Ha-ha, I think you should.

Sid:  Give me one example of where you sang over someone and they got healed.

Kevin:  Well, what I do more than anything is, you know I really try to hear what the Holy Spirit is doing in the environment that I’m in.  You know because Jesus didn’t do the same thing over and over again, every miracle was approached differently and there was a different strategy being played.  And so it’s not about a religious formula or a technique.

Sid:  And that’s why so many people that understand the principles don’t see much fruit because they’re down to a formula.

Kevin:  Exactly and it’s about relationship so.  For example I was praying over a woman in Kirkland, Washington and she had been debilitated for five years.  She had had an operation a simple operation and they had somehow, they had cut into her sciatic by accident and she was basically crippled for five years.  And so I started praying over her and I saw a vision of 10K over her head and a brand new pair of running shoes in her closet and sure enough she had been training for a 10K run and she had the brand new pair of running shoes in her closet and she hadn’t …she was planning on using those for her race right before she got injured.  And so as I started praying over her I heard this song in my head that was actually a secular song by a group called REM which goes, It’s the end of the world as know it, it’s the end of the world know it, it’s the end of the world as you know it and I feel fine.  And so I couldn’t sing that over her because that wasn’t faith.  So I changed the lyrics to this secular radio song and I sang.  It’ the end of your pain as you know it, it’s the end of your pain as you know it, it’s the end of your pain as you know it; you feel fine.  And then I had her sing it and she sang “It’s the end of my pain as I know it,” and when she finished the last note she was instantly healed.  She went home that night, her family loaded up into the mini-van and followed her as she put on her brand new running shoes and ran one complete mile that very night. And came back that next day complaining that her muscles hurt because she hadn’t walked, let alone run in five years.  Ha-ha-ha.

Sid:  You talk about being so saturated with the Word of God and the Spirit of God that you spring links, what do you mean by that?

Kevin:  Well, Jesus said, “Is anyone thirsty,” in John 7:37 “Let him come to me and drink, and then river of living water will flow out from them.”  That’s drinking and leaking and to me that’s what supernatural evangelism is all about.  Supernatural evangelism is about drinking in God’s presence, His passion, His love towards us, His kindness, His goodness that is manifested demonstrated in signs and wonders and miracles and in prophetic insights that call out the gold inside of us that encourage us and comfort us, His love, His forgiveness everything that flows from Him we take in and we drink in.  And then we just as naturally as we’ve taken in that stuff we release it, we leak it out of our lives so that others around us then experience the Father’s passion through us; demonstrated in signs and wonders and miracles and healings, prophetic insights that call out the gold in people.  That call them into their destiny; the plans and purposes, the good plans and purposes that God has for their lives.

Sid:  Well, speaking of leaking you rolled over in your asleep put your hand on your wife; didn’t even know what you were doing because you were sleeping; she had a bad case of hives what happened?

Kevin:    Well, right when we came to Bethel Church in 2002 my wife had been suffering from pressure hives, we really couldn’t figure out what kind of hives they were; she had gone to several dermatologists and they couldn’t figure out what it was either.  But for about six months she had this condition where she would have to get up about two or three times in the middle of the night, take a hot bath just to relieve the pain that she was experiencing.  And we came up here and everybody prayed for her and nothing seemed to be happening at the time.  One night I was just lying in bed and I was sleeping my wife was just writhing in pain from these hives all over her legs.  And I just reached over and I put my hand on her stomach and as I did all of the pain left and she hasn’t had one problem with hives since.

Sid:  But it’s so amazing Mishpochah is the number of creative miracles that are going on with Kevin and not just with Kevin, anyone that he’s been teaching…His purpose is for you to do everything he’s doing and even do greater.  I imagine there’s a certain satisfaction when some of your students outdo you.

Kevin:  Oh yes, I’m like a proud Poppa, you know it’s just like with my Son, my Son and I are constantly sharing testimonies back and forth.  And we get to minister together on occasion and it’s just so fun working together and seeing him just excel in releases the Kingdom on people and activating people into supernatural ministry as well.

Sid:  Very briefly tell me about the young girl in Mexico that was missing a jawbone.

Kevin:  Yeah, we were down in Topeka, Mexico praying for hundreds and hundreds of people.  We probably saw in one week’s time probably 2 to 3,000 people miraculously healed.  And one of the gals came up and she was missing a jawbone.  She had been a car accident and her jawbone was missing on one side so that she couldn’t smile, she couldn’t eat an apple, she couldn’t put any pressure down at all.  And I prayed for her and three months later she emailed and said that she had gone back to the doctor because when she went home that night after I prayed for her she could feel her jawbone growing back slowly all night long until the next morning it was completely grown back.  And she was reluctant to go back to the doctor because she did not know what to say; the doctor didn’t believe her until he got out the x-rays and matched them up and determined that it was exactly the same girl.  And he was an atheist and put on his website for awhile this miraculous thing that had happened to his patient.

Sid:  But this is naturally supernatural and I want you to live a naturally supernatural life…

John Paul:  Yes, yeah, that’s a good way of putting it, Christians are going to be become real Christians again.

Sid:  And, you know you talked in detail and I asked you before we went on the air to explain it to our Mispocah, but there seems to be a such compromise in the church, and you saw things that are going to be happening as far as exposure, and we were discussing because little by little the church is getting like the world and we don’t see God showing up striking someone down dead, like Ananias and Sapphira we think we can get away with it.  But enough is enough, what is going on?  What is God showing you?

John Paul:  One of the things that the Lord has been speaking to me about is the need to clean up His house and the judgment begins in the House of Lord and if there is warning judgments that’s going to be coming on the land and on the earth in various nations, it’s going to also come on the House of the Lord first and so what God is doing He’s…

Sid:  Well, that’s right God says that judgment begins in the House of God.

John Paul:  Right, so He’s revealing the corruption that’s going on there and sadly what has happened there is an erosion of the God of absolutes.  And whenever you erode the absolutes of God, then you erode a God who is absolute.  When you erode the God that is absolute then there is not absolute one way to get to God and eventually there is really no God that is absolutely God.  So the road to deifying God has been paved with the idea that there’s very few absolutes.  And when you do that, then corruption begins to settle into the church and that’s where we’re at right now, we have a major issue of corruption.  Divorce is as high not only in the church, as it is in the world; the divorce is as high amongst pastors as it is in the world.

Sid:  But it’s condoned, its accepted, the pastor leaves his wife, marries his secretary and he’s back in the pulpit, he may sit down for thirty days.  Something’s wrong with that picture.

John Paul:  There is something wrong and what we’ve done, I believe that we have misused the term grace and have gone over to licentiousness.  Under the guise of embracing grace and the application of grace and mercy we have gone over into licentiousness and that deeply, deeply troubles me.

Sid:  Now you saw sexual perversion being exposed in the church and many people think that well that we’ve seen some of this in the Catholic Church but you’re talking about in the protestant church as well.

John Paul:  I’m talking about in the Protestant Church where it’s not only the issue of divorce it is not only the issue of homosexuality it is also the issue of two other things that are shocking and that is bestiality will begin to be uncovered and…

Sid:  In the church?

John Paul:  In the church, and that will begin to be uncovered. And so what we have, because we have ruled out the absolutes of God then people think that the judgments of God are not longer there; that God’s not looking; God’s not seeing because God’s not acting.  All that is about to change; all that is about to change; when we are longing for a greater glory then we are going to have greater judgment comes with greater glory.  With Ananias and Sapphira there was great signs and wonders that were taking place and therefore there was great and quick swift judgment that was taking place as well.

Sid:  Something that the Holy Spirit has been speaking to you is the woes of 2012, what has God told you?

John Paul:  right well, I wish I would know more I keep hearing I have seen, and I’m not sure that this is actually 2012 or after 2012 but the issues of satellite communication, the issue of planes having difficulty landing because communications goes out.  And communications go out because of satellites that wipe out our communication system.

Sid:  Look, North Korea has got bombs that if they could hit the west coast they could knock out the satellite system on the West Coast.

John Paul:  I wasn’t aware of that, but something is going to happen along those lines.  And I believe that North Korea is far more desperate what I seen and I had a dream and North Korea was far more desperate than most people think of Korea is a small blip on the screen, like nat that just needs to be just swatted away.  But the problem is that that nat, if you want to call it a nat is not thinking clearly, there is something going on in the mind, there is a demonic twisting of thought processes of Kim Jon ll that will cause him to make irrational decisions regarding the nuclear program that he is developing.

Sid:  And could it be connected with the ungodliness of America at this moment that this is happening to us?

John Paul:  I absolutely believe that it is, if the church would take its rightful place, if we would become the backbone of this country again; if we would know how to fight for what we believe, know how to argue without getting angry over what we believe.  If we would know how to make presentation of the gospel and if we would walk in the power of the scripture.  If we would walk in the power that is available to us then people would step back and they would go woe, their knees would knock when we walk into the room.  We would walk into city council meetings, we would walk into government meetings and the leaders would be afraid because they would feel the presence of the Lord with us.  We don’t carry that now, and all we are because of that all we have done is reduced ourselves to another form of logic and its logic arguing against logic.  But God wants to give power to His people, He wants His people to do great exploits and to do that we are going to need to know Him at a much higher level and have a commitment to Him at a much higher level.

Sid:  Do you know what the inner most prayer of my heart is and has been for along time and I have some of my friends that get upset with me over this, but I don’t care, that’s the way I feel; I don’t pray for money.  I don’t pray for expansion of the ministry, I pray for intimacy with God, that’s all I want.

John Paul:  You and me must be the only ones doing that, that’s exactly what I pray for every single day, the presence of the Lord, intimacy with Him.  I don’t pray for money; I’ve never prayed for money, I have prayed for intimacy with Him, relationship with Him because in His presence all provision is found.

Sid:  And I don’t even want the provision, I just want Him, that’s where my heart is at this moment.

John Paul:  Good, I love that.

Sid:  Anyway tell us some more consequences you see as a result of this sin in the geophysical area that will be coming.

John Paul:  One of the five elements of the perfect storm is religion, economics, politics, war and the fifth element is geophysical.  And some of the geophysical things I saw was that, again God is talking, looking at man as mankind seeing mankind as the solution.  So one of the things that is going to have problems is going to be hybrid seed.  Because man has developed a hybrid seed type of, in fact almost every seed that you see out there, the wheat crops, that you’re seeing and everything.  Monsanto and others have developed hybrid seeds that you have to purchase from them and theirs supposedly give you more yield per acre; they supposedly have a bigger seed ect.  But the problem is there is going to come blight on a type of hybrid seed that will keep the seed from germinating.  The Bible talks about first the blade and then the ear and then the full corn in the ear.  And what you’ll see is blades coming through the ground, but you won’t see the ear being developed from the corn.  And whether its corn or its wheat or whether it’s barley or whether it’s oats, there is coming a blight to hybrid seeds and it’s going to create a food shortage.  Not only in the United States, but also overseas.

Sid:  Now, you also talk about a water shortage in the United States in particular.

John Paul:  Right, and I have seen in a vision, I saw thousands of people being evacuated from large cities, not just one, but a handful of cities and maybe more than that, but I saw a handful of cities because there wasn’t enough water in the city to take care of the populations.  So they evacuated people, people left the cities and thousands and thousands of cars, just bumper to bumper cars leaving cities.  Almost like you’d see when a hurricane warning goes out, people were leaving the cities like that because of the water shortage.

Sid:  And you also saw that people moving out of the cities, that’s where the property would be increasing in value because there would all of a sudden be a demand.

John Paul:  There will be a demand and part of what I saw was thistle material, nuclear thistle material hitting one city in particular, which I can’t name right now.

Sid:  I was about ready to ask you, you know that.

John Paul:  But there’s actually two cities that it’s going to hit and that would generate fear for people living in cities and they will rush to the rural areas to by land or buy houses with land.

Sid:  Now, what is this skin sores and diseases that would start appearing on people, what’s that going to come from?

John Paul:  Well, because of some things that are going to be happening in our atmosphere and I’m not a scientist, I don’t want to learn to be a scientist, I have enough on my plate right now, so I don’t understand all the exact terminology.  But there is like a bubble around what I saw in the vision was a bubble around the earth begins to crack there was cracks that formed in this bubble and when those cracks formed rays that use to not get through would start getting through, rays from the sun.  And when those rays from the sun got through it created an unusual type of sore on the skin of people that had never seen this type of sores before; doctors had never seen these types of sores before.

Sid:  Trust me, as negative as this sounds, I got so excited by the time I found out what God’s about ready to do with His people in the midst of what is being described.

Patricia:  Oh sure, I remember I mean so many are coming to my mind right now but I remember one time our team decided to go homeless because we wanted to relate to the homeless people; we’d been down in that particular area of our city where there’s a lot of drug addicted people and they just weren’t warming up to us.  So we went homeless and just hung out with them and identified with them.  And on that particular day, I met this young gal, she was a crack addict and she was passed out on the street and so we began to just reach out to her and heard her heart.  We just sat there and listened to her heart.  And after awhile of just hearing her heart and when she trusted us we began to share with her the love of Jesus Christ and the power that He had to set her free.  And all of a sudden she began to weep and weep and weep and so we prayed with her, she received Jesus Christ as her Savior and then we prayed against her addiction.  And as we prayed for the addiction this fire went through her body that she actually felt, she said “I feel fire, I feel like hot on the inside, I feel fire!”  So we explained to her, “That is the fire of God’s love that is the fire of His deliverance power burning up the addiction on the inside of you.”  And she said, “Yes, I believe it” and she started to just weep more and more.  Well, at the end of the encounter she was in our arms, you know we had been rocking her like a little baby and she was just so blessed and so assured in the Lord and immediately sobriety came upon her and she was absolutely normal.  She said, “I feel so normal, I feel I feel so wonderful.”  Now, she had come from another state and ended up in the inner city and back on her addiction.  So her family was in another state and she had run from them and now after receiving Christ she wanted to go back to them.  And so she returned home to the state she was from and got reconnected with her family; and she was instantly set free but entered into discipleship.

Sid:  And I would image that that is the major thing that people are saying that attend your Glory School of they understand the Glory of God; the presence of God and the gifts become activated in their life.  There’s some things that are going on in your ministry that I’ve heard of and there are some things going on in your ministry that I haven’t really heard of.  Explain the lightning’s of God.

Patricia:  Well, Revelation 4 and verse 5 says, “Out from the Throne comes flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder.  And so of course a throne room is a Kingdom reality, there is a Real Throne Room with a real Throne with a real Messiah that sits on that Throne and He is real in our lives.  Jesus said, “Pray in this way, Your Kingdom come Your Will be done in the earth as it is in Heaven.  So I remember the very first time that I experienced lightnings was I think back in around 1999 when we were in a room of people praying and waiting on God, and all of sudden, in the room, and this is inside the house came a visible vivid flash of lightning.  And we all saw it and we said, “Oh, my gosh!” And that was amazing; and that particular night six flashes of lightning came and this was visible; we saw it with open vision.

Sid:  Now, when you say we, did everyone see it?

Patricia:  Everyone saw the light, in fact there was one skeptic in the room who said, “You know maybe it’s not an actual lightning, maybe it’s an electrical short on the light in the natural, you know like the light in the room.”  And so we ended up to just test it out, we shut down all the electricity in the room and just had some table candles on the coffee table and that was all the light that we had at the end of this; and the lightning still came in and so we determined that this was a real lightning from God.  And we asked the Lord, “Lord what is this?” Because that was the first time, we didn’t know what the lightnings were about.  And He began to reveal to us into our thinking thoughts about natural lightning and He said, “As it is in the natural, so it parallels what with is happening in the Spirit.”  And in natural lightning, what happens is that there’s an actual shift because of the lightning that brings things into alignment in the atmosphere.  So the negative ions and the positive ions, I’m not, you know sure how it all works but lightning actually freshens the air; because it brings things out of order into order.

Sid: Well, speaking of out of order into order, tell me about that church that had lightning hit and within that week sin was exposed in the leadership.

Patricia:  Yeah, actually it was about two months after that first encounter we had with lightning, I was ministering in a church and we were just doing a conference, we had been invited in to speak and as we were sitting down at one of the sessions and the Pastor got up in pulpit to give announcement and to introduce us.  All of the sudden the appearance of those lightings came out it was a flash of light.  Not everyone in the room saw that, but I saw it and two other people on our team saw it, we looked at each other and we thought “Oh, my gosh, what was that you know?”  And when we were praying about it afterwards we talked to the Pastor about it and we said, “You know we saw lightning flash on you when you were up on the pulpit,” and we explained to him what we learned about the lightings.  And we said, “You know sometimes, it brings things that are out of order into order,” and we did not know that the Pastor was in sin.  But we told him we said, “This is what God calls for that things out of order to be brought into order.”  And within one week of that lightning flash there was an exposure of sexual sin in that pastor’s life and so it brought cleansing to the church.

Sid:  I’m wondering if we are going to see a lot of that because it appears to me that we have a generation of Christians here in the United States of America, North America that are not that concerning about holiness and living in sin.

Patricia:  I know it’s so vital Sid, that we align ourself with the righteousness of God because we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus; so we need to manifest that.  And I do believe that there is going to be some strong dealings.  I know that a number of months back the Lord spoke to me a Word concerning appropriate discipline that when sin is exposed there needs to be appropriate discipline and repentance or else increase lawlessness will come.

Sid: I see that many people where sin is exposed and the whole gospel is forgiveness but there has to be repentance and they can’t just you know a month later, go back into ministry.

Patricia:  Exactly, I agree totally.

Sid:  …Tell me about when a person goes to the week Glory School in person what are some of the things that people leave with?

Patricia:  In the Glory School, we teach a life in the supernatural; how to live in the invisible kingdom of God with supernatural ability and empowerment; interaction with the Holy Spirit; following Him into all kinds of Devine encounters and Glory encounters; including how to discern angelic presence; and understand from the Spirit what they are doing and how to access by faith through scriptures and the leading of the Spirit Throne Room encounters.  And so students that come learn a strong foundation of the Word concerning who they are in Christ and what they have in Him according to Covenant.  Because as you know Jesus came and cut a covenant for us on behalf of men with God that is an eternal unbreakable covenant full of promises for us to walk in.  So the Glory School teaches us how to walk with Holy Spirit into the Glory dimensions of the Kingdom of God.

Sid:  Now many people that have never moved in the glory realm that have never had Third Heaven type experiences, once they take your school and your classes, this is normal.  This isn’t just the superstar is it?

Patricia:  No, all the Word is for all of God’s people and it says in Deuteronomy 9:29 “The secret things belong to God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever.”  And so when the scriptures are revealed to us God expects us to encounter it and so the Glory School teaches people how to encounter what is revealed to them by the Spirit in the Word.

Bruce: Well, as we left off previous message there, they were in the bathroom, they brought him a red T-shirt and a glass of water.  When he took off his shirt, they saw this hole in his side and the piercings in his hands and he looked like he had been whipped with a cat- a- nine tails.  But their eyes we blinded; they just thought this man had been severely mugged.  I mean that he’d been out and something had happened.  So they brought him into the service and I was up teaching.  They brought him in on the left and they sat in front.  And at the end of the service, the medical doctor who was also an elder in the church, the pastor said go over and ascertain from this gentleman what it is that he needs in prayer.  Well when the doctor went over and looked at him he thought that he should be taken immediately to the emergency room, he looked like he was on deaths door.  So the Pastor walked over and I’m watching this because I have turned it over to the Pastor at that point.  The Pastor walks over and begins to dialogue and says, “Brother, come up to the front so we can pray with you.”  Well, when the man stood up he walked bent over like he was under a heavy weight.  Now, just picture Jesus carrying the cross, and so as they’re walking up he turns to the man and says, “In the Name of Jesus, I command strength to come, stand up straight.”  And immediately the man stood up straight and this beatific smile came upon his face, and they came up to the front and dialogued and prayed a little bit and so after the prayer they said, “Well, Pastor, what do we do with him.”  He said, “Well, here’s some ringgit, he can get a taxi and get a meal.  He said, “No, I don’t need your money.”  You got to understand, they think this man is just been on the street, he’s beat within an inch of his life he’s been mugged.  This lady who had been watching from the back came forward and said, “Here’s fifty ringgits,” he said,” No thank you, I don’t need your money, and out of pockets in each side he had a thousand ringgits freshly minted bills.  And they were shocked, they went, “Whoa.”

Sid: Now which country is this the currency from?

Bruce: Malaysia, Kuala, Lumpur, Malaysia.

Sid: Alright, go ahead.

Bruce: So they said, “What do we do?”  Well, take him down stairs and get him a taxi.  And so the Pastor his wife and I left and we went out to fellowship afterwards.  They took this man downstairs, now there in the guard gate and, this is in an industrial area so the street you have to walk for at least a thousand yards before you’re out of sight.  The guard, he’s in the guard shake, the guard because it’s raining, the guard get’s on the phone, looks to his left, turns back and he had vanished into thin air.  Well, on the way home that night the Pastor began to dialogue with the Lord, and say, “You know what Lord, I don’t understand, we prayed and believed according to that word that you would give us a sign and You never showed up and immediately the Spirit of God said, “Oh, yes I did.”  And this man’s face flashed in his mind’s eye and he pulled over to the side of the road, and he called his elder and he said, “Where did this man go?”  He said, “Well, it’s funny you should ask Pastor, because this is what happened, he had vanished right out of the guard shack.”  So the Pastor for two hours drove all over looking for this man.

Sid: I imagine so.  One of the things you talked about eight hundred people seeing Jesus in the congregation.  Tell me about when you teach whole groups get caught away in the spirit, explain.

Bruce: Oh yes, sir, my passion is that people understand that it is they’re birth right not only to see into the realm of the Spirit, but actually to go into the realm of the Spirit.  Basic scripture on that is John 3:3 “When Nicodemus came to Jesus at night, Jesus said, Nicodemus unless a man is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”  What He was saying, Nicodemus if you’re born again you can see the kingdom of God. And in another instance John 14:12 Jesus said, “The works that I do you’ll do also.  And in John 5:19 He said, “I only do what I see; now that’s  just a couple of scriptures.  Therefore because I can do what He does, and He only did what He saw I can see, and so we’ve taught this in many nations of the world that it is their birthright to see.  We pray a prayer of activation and what’s fascinating to me is beginning at that first conference where you saw where I’m transparent, from that time on I had begun to see chariots of fire and on occasion they literally come into the room.  And when I have seen that I know that the people are going to have a supernatural experience and many will be caught away in the spirit.  So there were times where I have taught groups of eighty five, out of eighty five, eighty four had a supernatural experience where they began to experience where they began to see and or were caught up into the Third Heaven.

Sid: And I understand as you teach, you see angels and the people see angels and people receive new mantles.  Tell me about the new mantles they receive.

Bruce: We were teaching in what they call a family camp, a retreat, but over in that part of the world their family camp retreats are five star resort hotels, which is nice.  But so we were teaching this particular message and all of a sudden, into the room there were about 210 people at the camp.  Approximately 220 – 230 angels walked in and they stood behind each individual in the room and every angel had what looked like a royal robe or a mantle.  And so I dialoged this, “Father what are we doing and what do you want me to do?  And He, the short of the story is that everybody was to stand up and as a prophetic gesture, just as a gentleman would put a wrap or a coat upon a woman they were to put it on, make that prophetic gesture.  Well, in that culture, that’s a little demonstrative for them so they were kind of looking at each other out of the corners of their eyes and finally this very dignified elderly lady kind of shrugged and she did that.  What happened is, now, I found out later that she is eighty-six years old, the Kabod of God, that weighty glory that was in that mantle when it rested on her, she felt it come on her and it made her sink, almost her posture was almost like your squatting.

Sid: Yes.

Bruce: And for about half an hour, she could not move.  Now physically even for a strong individual half an hour of squatting is very difficult; but for an elderly, that God changed her life.  Many of the teenagers when that happened began to see into the realm of the Spirit and saw the angels in there.  And just all sorts of sovereign supernatural things began to take place as well as healing and deliverance.

Sid: Now, let me ask you a question because as you talk about the anointing you have to activate people to see in the Spirit and experience these things that you’re experiencing.  Since your book is literally off the press, the title is “The Prophetic Promise of the Seventh Day” which you believe we’re entering into and this is the time that all of the it’s the entrance into it where the promises of God are going to be instant rather than taking twenty-thirty years; what do you prophetically see will happen to people that read your book?

Bruce: It will release and spark within them a revelation and an understanding of their birth rite and their destiny and will provoke them enough that we will begin to see the Body of Christ corporately, not just a select few individuals, the mystical few, begin to walk into the supernatural.  And understand that it’s the normal Christian experience, not the super or abnormal.

Sid: You know I like to say that if we had Christians today like we had at the first church every Christian would have their own television show.  That’s what you’re saying I believe; that we’re ready to enter into that again.

Bruce: Oh, absolutely, absolutely you’re familiar as we talked earlier with seed time and harvest.

Sid: Yes.

Bruce: The Lord showed me the biblical, His heart about seed time and harvest.  If you want more revelation, you give away what you’ve got.  If you want more anointing, you sow what you have.

Sid: Oh, you realize how much revelation and anointing you’re going to get from doing this revelation, show and then my television show?  How many people are going to be receiving it?  How about this book?  Because I know that as I’m reading this book I feel the presence of God and you show, I mean you would convince any biblical student that this is God’s time for the promises to manifest in their life.  I believe their going to see what areas will promises manifest in your opinion?

Bruce: Every area, yeah it covers the whole spectrum of human existence not only in the natural, but in the supernatural.

Sid: You talk about rest in this book; we’re living in such uncertain trying times, “What is God’s definition of rest?”

Bruce: Well, according to the book of Hebrews “There is now therefore a rest for the people of God,” and that rest is ceasing from our own works as God did.  If we look at what God did when He ceased, it was because it was complete, God entered into rest because it was a completion.  People of God, the rest that we’re going to enter into is understanding the fullness the completion of every covenant promise in our life.  It is going to bring us to the place of rest.  We no longer have to strive by the arm of flesh…

Sid: Well, what about the person that’s listening right now and they are about ready to lose their house?

Bruce: The God of all provision is there for the person that relies upon him right now.

Sid: See, I believe we’re coming into such trying times that you wrote this book so that people can move into those promises.

Bruce: Can I share something that’s happened just locally?

Sid: Tomorrow because we’re out of time.

Woman 1: I was very sick and I could not understand why God didn’t heal me.

Man: I felt as if all my prayers were being blocked.

Woman 2: I just couldn’t forgive my father for leaving us. It was like a cancer eating me up on the inside.

Sid: You know, there is a real consequence to sin. There’s a real consequence to unforgiveness. Peter Horrobin, tell me about Sarah.

Peter: Sarah was very badly abused by her father and the consequence of that abuse was long term. But you know, as she was growing up between the age of 9 and 18, she was constantly being used in a sexual and a physical way. When we first met her, she was in psychiatric care because in her late 30s she had completely fallen apart. She could no longer keep all the pain down and it broke out, and she was in psychiatric care, and she was on a lifetime psychiatric disability pension in the United Kingdom. The psychiatrist didn’t believe there was any hope for her. And it was at that point she heard about our retreat and she got permission to come out of hospital under the care of the psychiatrist to come on this retreat. And she learned about forgiveness. She didn’t want to forgive. She’d had a terrible experience. And yet, unless she’d forgive, and she knew that from the Word of God, unless she forgave she would never be able to enter into the freedom that Jesus had for her. It was a long process. But she came to that point of saying, “I choose to forgive.” The psychiatrist, he was amazed when he saw her again. Yes, she wasn’t completely whole. She wasn’t off medication, but she was different. And so he gave permission for her to come for a longer period of time. Three months later, my wife went back to see the psychiatrist with her and he said, “I don’t need to see you again.” She was off all medication. She had been able to forgive, and not only forgive, the healing had been flowing on the inside. Today she is totally restored. Having come from a lifetime of psychiatric disability, she’s now completely whole. She’s more whole perhaps than anybody I had ever known.

Sid: Peter, I am feeling, I don’t know what it is. It’s a presence of God. It’s like honey. It’s smooth. You’re supposed to pray right now for people. There’s an anointing for something special right now.

Peter: There are many people who are watching this who have issues in their life, perhaps people who have been especially abused. They’ve struggled with things in secret, and I’m speaking to you right now. If you know that in your past there are people who have done things to you, unspeakable things, things that perhaps you have never been able to talk about. They’ve robbed of you your future. They’ve robbed you of relationships that have made it impossible for you to live in a normal way. I want you right now to ask God to give you the grace to forgive them, to release them into the freedom of your forgiveness and to say, “I choose now to forgive John, forgive Mary”, whatever their name may be, for whatever it is they’ve done and say, “I release you”. And then ask Jesus to come and heal you. Ask him to come and set you free. Ask him to come and set you free from the powers of darkness. Ask him to let you out of the prison that you’re in so that you can begin to get out into the open spaces of life and begin to enter into your destiny. He will do it. It’s our choice whether we want to ask him to do it. I pray that you’ll have the courage to make that choice.

Sid: The presence of God is so sweet. Tell me about the woman that had her fourth pregnancy and enough was enough.

Peter: This was an amazing story because she couldn’t afford to have another child and she fell pregnant, and she wished this child dead. She wanted it to die in the womb. And so she actually cursed this child to death. The child didn’t die. Many, many years later, something like 40 years later, she was present in one of my conferences and she heard me teaching about the words that we say can bring cursing upon other people. And she suddenly was convicted by the Spirit of God about what she said about her daughter. And she came and asked for prayer. And she confessed of her sin. And I spoke forgiveness to her. And she was just about to sit down when I suddenly heard the voice of God saying, “You’ve got to pray for the daughter.” So I called her back and through the mother I prayed for this woman, who I didn’t know anything about her.

Sid: She wasn’t even there.

Peter: She wasn’t even there. I just prayed that God would set her free from whatever had come upon her in her mother’s womb. A year later back in the same church, this woman came running across the hall of the church with a photograph of a baby. Now here’s this woman. She’s in her mid-60s and I thought, this is a miracle.

Sid: Peter, does this look familiar?

Peter: That’s the baby. And she said, “This baby was born to my daughter. Do you remember praying for her?” And for a moment I didn’t. But then I was reminded and she told me the story that this woman, her daughter, had been married for 14 years and they had been unable to conceive a child and were told that there was no hope whatsoever that they could ever have a child. Within a week of me praying for the daughter to be set free from whatever curses came upon her because of the wrongful words of her mother, she conceived a child, and this woman is so thrilled. She now has a grandson.

Sid: People are being healed right now. Tell them. Speak to them.

Peter: Yeah. As you receive truth into your heart about what God does to other people, you know what it does? It lifts your faith. And as you suddenly can see that if God’s done it for somebody else, He can do it for me. So receive that now. Receive the joy of healing and the joy of healing flows out of your spirit into your soul and into your body. So invite Jesus now to let the joy of his healing flow through your spirit into your soul, into your body as you forgive others, as you confess the things that you’ve done wrong. You know, it says in James, “Confess your sins once and know that you may be healed.” As we bring to God the things that we’ve done wrong that He can bring His restoring life into our lives and give us back our destiny.

Sid: You know, I think it’s interesting. You talk about people have to forgive, ask for forgiveness for what they’ve done. They need to forgive other people. They, some of you need to forgive God. If in one minute, you can tell me a story of someone that needed to forgive.

Peter: Yeah. See, if we blame God for things that He’s not done we’re actually putting Him, as it were, in the jail.

Sid: Stupid!

Peter: Absolutely. Satan is the god of this world, that man through his sin has put Satan in place, and the bad things that happen are Satan’s fault. So if we blame God, what we’re actually doing is saying that God is responsible for the works of the enemy. And sometimes people need to get to that place of saying, “God, I am sorry for blaming you.” You know, there’s many, many people who have had to walk this through. Sarah was one of those. She had to come to that place of saying, “God, why didn’t you protect me?” She was blaming God for the fact that she was not protected from her father’s abuse. And she said, “God, I am sorry for blaming you.”

Sid: “Father, forgive them. They know not what they do.” That was the prayer from the cross. And the moment, the second someone does something against you, say that, even out loud if necessary. Father, forgive them. They’re ignorant. They know not what they do. I want you to see those same people you saw that said they could not forgive, at the beginning of this segment, and here’s what they’re going to say after they’ve forgiven. Look at the change in their life. Same change is going to happen in your life.

Woman 1: See, once I truly, truly forgave them for what they did to me only then did God heal me.

Man: It’s like the heavens are no longer brass. My prayers seem to be getting right through to God Himself.

Woman 2: You’ll never know the freedom that it brings until you learn the importance of forgiveness.