Sid:  Now One New Man has a name, Jesus, Yeshua the King of the Jews and when the two when the wall of separation comes down between this Jewish believer and the Gentile believer and these two spiritual DNAs emerge together we get as Paul is just ecstatic I can just picture him saying this in the Chapter in the book of Ephesians, the full dwelling place of God by His Spirit.  And then we will do the same works that Yeshua, but Jesus did and even greater.  What’s the purpose of the works?  What’s the purpose of the miracles?  For a miracle, for a healing, oh that’s good, that’s great especially if you’re sick, but no it’s to demonstrate the Kingdom of heaven so that the world can know the King.  That’s the purpose of a miracle, for the greatest miracle.  And that’s why we equip you for walking in signs and wonders, but part of the equipping is to understand the times and seasons that we’re living in.  And we are living in the last of the last days and my friend Rabbi Jonathan Cahn received a revelation.  He is a prophetic teacher; I mean this is what he’s known for; in fact within the movement of Messianic Judaism he’s known as the top prophetic teacher that we have in the movement.  But I believe that he; it wasn’t an accident, he was a few miles down the road where 9/11 happened.   It wasn’t an accident the events that happened in his life to unravel a pattern for ancient Israel that if you were not a Jewish believer it would be very difficult for you to grasp the magnitude of this and we’re just touching the surface of it because we have a seven and by the way Jonathan, isn’t that that interesting, it’s seven CDs; there’s something about the number seven that we’re going to talk about later on either this week or next week.  But we have these seven CDs called “Harbinger, the Warning,” it’s a two part prophetic series the second part is called “Harbinger, the Shaking.”  And I tell you it is going to shake your whole paradyne for end times and how you’re supposed to live your life because this is the worse time for planet earth and the best time for believers.  Now Jonathan we were talking about, you uncovered from Isaiah 9:10 this pattern that was going on in ancient Israel because God’s heart was saying I don’t to judge you, I want you to prosper!  I want you to be blessed, that was God’s heart, but he did warning, I don’t think that I’d give as many warnings as God’s given, but there was seven harbingers or warnings.  And we talked about on yesterday’s broadcast and previous days that are leading to where we are going and we can only touch a little bit of only a few of these harbingers, but let’s start today with the warning of the vow.

Jonathan:  Yes, yeah, the stage again is that that America is following a pattern of ancient Israel in its last days when God sent warning and the ultament the first thing was the breaking of the hedge of protection.  That matches with 9/11; then comes nine harbingers linked to that and to the nations not repenting, but turning away from God.  God sends warning.  So here we go, we’re going to go the eighth harbingers today and this one blew me away because the, it involves the American leader who without realizing it is actually taking part in a prophetic reenactment of the ancient drama; and he becomes part of the sign.  Now, now to put it together, Isaiah 9:10 has been our key to unlocking this; it’s the vow of defiance and we went to several things within it that actually came true; the sycamore tree, the aorist tree, the stone of judgment, all of that.  But now, put it all together you have a vow; you have this vow of defiance ; you have the nation of Israel makes; “We are not going to be humbled and all of that and we are going to come back stronger than ever; and that’s what Isaiah records.  So the eighth harbinger is going to be the vow itself of the words; it’s the utterance; it’s the speaking, the proclaiming of it.  Now, which becomes a sign itself that it was a sign of Israel’s destruction actually leads to the destruction.  Now how do we find this harbinger?  How do we find – locate that if this could appear in America?  Well, the first thing is who spoke those words which Isaiah said, “The brick’s have fallen, we will rebuild the hewn stone, the sycamore has been cut down, we will plant cedars or aorist trees in they’re place.”  Who spoke it?  Certainly the people could have done that, but it only means something if spoken by the leaders of ancient Israel; only then does it represent the will of a nation.  So where would they have spoken it?  Leaders would have spoken a proclamation in a capital city.  So the eighth harbinger is this:  A national leaders has to speak in the capitol city in a public setting to proclaim the ancient vow of defiance specifically joining it to the calamity.  In the case of America it would have been 9/11; so the eighth harbinger appeared, that’s what has to happen; it has to be proclaimed publically.

Sid:  And again, what Jonathan is saying is this is actually what happened in ancient Israel and and it’s playing out.  It was almost as if Jonathan, that it was a dress rehearsal of what is happening in America today.

Jonathan:  Yeah, its mystery it’s a prophetic replaying exactly of what happened there and it’s all comes together there and nobody could have orchestrated this.  And so here; could this have actually happen?  Why would American leader proclaim words, ancient words of Israel, the leaders of Israel and words of judgment?

• Well, it happened three years after 9/11; in fact it happened on the anniversary of 9/11; the third anniversary of 9/11.  September 11, 2004;
• Where? In the capital city, Washington, DC;
• By whom?  By an American national leader, the man who was the Vice President candidate on the democratic ticket that year, John Edwards.

He gets up to speak at a gathering in Washington on 9/11 three years after the calamity.    He gets up to deliver a speech which I mean he has no idea what he’s about to do; he’s about to manifest the eighth harbinger.  He thinks he’s giving a speech to of inspiring people; but according to the harbinger, a national leader has to proclaim the ancient words.  So this is these; listen now, these are the actual words and this is how he begins:  He says, “Good morning, today on this day of remembrance and mourning; we have the Lord’s word to get us through and here’s the word of encouragement.  He says,

• The bricks have fallen, but we will build with dressed stones.
• The sycamores have been cut down, but we will put cedars in their place.

Sid:  He is quoting exactly Isaiah 9:10!

Jonathan:  Exactly!  About out of about thirty…

Sid:  Of all the scriptures in all of the Bible, he picks the one that is one of the warnings to Israel that progressively judgment is coming and he mouths it as a national leader.

Jonathan:  Exactly, and on 9/11 and linking it to 9/11 not realizing what he’s doing, he’s linking 9/11 to the breech of Israel’s last days of judgment.  He’s linking America to Israel under judgment.  He’s linking America as a nation in defiance of God without realizing it.  He had no idea whatsoever as if.  But he’s doing exactly; he’s reenacting what the leaders of ancient Israel did.  And not only that; he not only does that, but he builds the entire speech around Isaiah 9:10 about the vow of defiance without realizing it, he doesn’t know what it means.  He says this, “Let me show you how we are building, “We are putting cedars in those places; hollow places.”  In other words he’s identifying a thing, he said, “We are the footsteps of ancient Israel.”  He goes on; “In a place where smoke once rose, you and I will see that cedar rising.  He doesn’t realize the cedar is a harbinger of judgment.  He’s says, “You will see that while those bricks fell and the sycamores were cut down, our people are making those cedars rise.”  He’s talking about the harbingers there, and actually he doesn’t even realize that they actually existed, that there was a sycamore that got cut down, there was a stone placed on the place he doesn’t even realize that but it’s prophetic and it’s a prophetic statement; it’s supernatural.

Sid:  Is it prophetic, Jonathan Cahn that shortly thereafter he collapsed.

Jonathan:  Yeah.

Sid:    He fell?

Jonathan:  Yeah.

Sid:  I see that as all part of it.

Jonathan:   Yeah, yeah; in fact Sid, I think you’re right; that you’re on, were going to see tomorrow with another national leader who does a traumatic thing with this and he also falls from power too; that is, I believe that is so.  And so just like probably the leaders of ancient Israel, we don’t know what happened to them, but they were in judgment.  The vow, I’m not speaking about him personally but, the vow is a sign, the vow is a manifestation he’s representing the nations defiance of God.  And when it was uttered in ancient Israel that vow actually lead to ultimately the destruction because the people didn’t turn back its ammonias.

Sid:  And I happen to know some of the things he’s going to be teaching; and it’s only you know tiny bit of what; this is such rich and depth.  Jonathan, I have to believe that you’re amazed that so much occurred having to do with the patterns of ancient Israel.

Jonathan:  Yeah, and it doesn’t stop, I mean we’re gonna, I mean we’re going to go, we are going to see, you know it’s going to actually lead, it’s going to lead into every, it’s going to lead into the collapse of the economy.

Sid:  Is it going to lead into perhaps the future of President Obama?

Jonathan:  Well, it’s going to lead into the future, what that is you know that’s, that’s, that’s an issue, but it’s going to lead.  Everything, we are going to get in, it’s has not stopped the progressive.  There is a progression of judgment…

Sid:  We’ve got to get this on the air because it’s still unfolding, but you can see the progressive pattern and you see what you have to do.  I mean this message should be, as Pat Robertson would say, “Shouted from the housetop!”  Ha-ha.

Jonathan:  Hmmm.  Yeah, yeah and it’s yeah, I keep getting the scripture of you know, “Sound the alarm, you know, sound the alarm!  That’s what we have to do.

Sid:  Well, you know David Wilkerson was promoted home, I’m wondering if that mantle isn’t falling on a Messianic Jewish Rabbi right now?

Jonathan:  Well, Sid…

Sid:  I’ll let you not answer that one right now.  But I want to read to you from the front page of our next newsletter; in which we’re featuring this two part prophetic series. Is it possible, there existed an ancient mystery in which is hidden the secret of America’s future?  Is it possible that this mystery lies behind everything from 9/11; to the war in Iraq; to the American housing bubble and it’s bursting to the crash of Wall Street; and the global economy to the great recession and so much more?  Even the President of the United States?

Sid:  My guest, Joan Hunter comes from such a tough poverty background and God has taught her what he calls the patterns to follow.  And if you follow the pattern that God has outlined in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant you will be blessed so that you can be a blessing in these last days God is going to turn everything around in your life.  And the scripture we ended with yesterday when I was interviewing Joan Hunter is Deuteronomy 8:18; and it says “And you shall remember the Lord Your God for it is He who gives you power to get wealth that He may establish His Covenant which He swore to your Fathers as it is this day.”  Joan Hunter, what is God saying to us in this scripture?

Joan:  So often people read that scripture, God has given me wealth, and it says, “God has given me the power to get wealth.”  He has given you the power, the wisdom, the knowledge, to get wealth, not just in the natural knowledge, but He will give you it in the Spirit knowledge.  Ephesians 1:17-19, that He is going to give you a greater Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation in the knowledge of Him, that pertains to finances; He is going to give you witty inventions…

Sid:  By the way, speaking of inventions, you were talking about Texas that only went to the ninth grade and he had a dream about some new equipment to invent, tell me about him.

Joan:  He’s an awesome guy, his name is name is Keith Miller, he’s an evangelist here and he’s such a neat guy.  And he was talking about how God had given him a dream, which is “drem” in Texan, and he said, “He sat down and he drew the dream out and it was a piece of machinery.”  So he found some engineers and they said, “This is absolutely the most incredible piece of machinery I have ever seen in my entire life, where did you get your Engineering Degree?”  And he said, “I got it in a drem, a drem.” like I have not heard of that school.  What school?  He goes, drem drem, you know and they finally understood that he got it in a dream.  And he says, I don’t know if he finish ninth grade of education, but he is a very knowledgeable man and he’s an author and everything now.  But God gave him this dream which helped bring millions of dollars into him and his ministry.  And don’t depend on your education; I have another lady friend who after listening to my seminar on finances and the CD on End Time Economics, she got a hold of this revelation.  She said, “God is going to give me, this is so exciting, God is going to give me a witty invention, I’m a hairdresser, I’m going to design a whole new line of hair color,” that’s the natural man.  A couple of days later she is so excited about the dream and the vision and the chemicals and the bio and the chemistry that is going to be involved in the new hair color and dadada.  And all of a sudden God gives her a dream about a machine for an ophthmalogist; I’m like I don’t even know how to spell opthmalogist you know.   She has this piece of machinery; she takes it to a group of opthalmologists and they say, “This is incredible; we need to market it to every single ophthmalogist in the world.”  And “Where did you get it?”  And once again, “I got it in a dream.”  “Well we want to offer you, I know that this is really really low, but we want to offer you, you know it’s really low to begin with, but this is just a beginning we want to offer you $20,000,000 for your idea!”

Sid:  You know I understand why you don’t like to look at the news on television and hear the gloom and doom which is that anyone watching the news is going to come up with gloom and doom; you got to many good things to look at.

Joan:  I agree, we need, you see so many people are lining up with the world instead of the word.  And you listen to the new, “Oh this is so horrible what’s happening.”  You know I sit at the airport for my multiple plane trips, that’s when I listen to the news.  Now I’m aware pretty much what’s going on, but for me to sit there and listen to the news, I get on a plane and I start hitting the side of my head trying to get the junk out number one.  Number two, I put my hand and raise it over my head like a razor and go “In the Name of Jesus I cut those words off that is not affecting my health, that it is not affecting my ministry, that it is not affecting my life, it is not affecting my childrens life and I cut those words off in Jesus Name, they have no power over me or my family or any of these ministries in Jesus Name.”  So many ministries are cutting back and saying, “How are you handling all these people that you are having to let go because of finances?”  I’m like I’m not letting them go because of finances, you know and we’re expanding, we’re building you know.

Sid:  You know the same thing is going on in our ministry too.  I believe this is what I believe with all of my heart Joan; there is a shift going on in ministry now.  And God and those that are not walking holy are going to be demoted if you will and suffer the way the world is.  And those that are walking in holiness God’s going to elevate right now.

Joan:  I totally agree with you and God is watching over His children and it is so incredible, there is a scripture that I absolutely love and it’s in the New Living Translation.  And it is Ephesians 2:7 “So God can always point to us as an example of His incredible wealth, favor and kindness in all He has done for us through Christ Jesus.”  Hallelujah, I want to be an example of His incredible wealth, of His favor and kindness in all He has done for me through Christ Jesus.

Sid:  Well Joan, this is a question that many people ponder.  Here in America the land of opportunity, we see a lot of people that prosper, but what about a third world country; someone that can’t put two dimes together, how does studying the pattern and the principals in the Bible finance affect them?  Do you have any firsthand experience?

Joan:  I have an incredible firsthand experience.  Actually I have one and Moms got one, but last, like a year and half ago two years ago sometime in the past I went to Haiti right after the earthquake.  And we went down there; curse the spirit of trauma and command it to go and millions of sicknesses had been prevented because of the trauma going.  Millions of people got saved and so I preached, I was teaching to pastors, about a thousand pastors down there.  And I said, “The word of God works in Haiti like it does in America, its Ephesians 2:7, Deuteronomy 8:18 those are some scriptures; Philippians 4:19, My God does supply all of my needs according to His riches in Glory by Christ Jesus.”  “Those apply here in Haiti just like they do in America, don’t be looking at rich American Christians, look at rich Haiti Christians that God wants to raise up.”  And I did my teaching and you know we weren’t going to receive any offerings and all those kind of stuff and you know all of a sudden we were singing praise and worship getting ready to go have lunch and the people started; God moved on them, they started bringing money up to the platform.  They would empty their pockets out, everything they had left.

Sid:  You mean they caught the scripture; you didn’t even have to say anything?

Joan:  They would empty their pockets of everything, and it would be an equivalent of two cents for us, and they emptied it and we had hats for shade on and we just used hats for offering buckets.  And seven hundred eight hundred people were flooding to the front, it was I mean I was up there weeping and weeping because it was like, God they got it, they got it.  And the prayer is that you who are listening will get that God wants to take care of you, He cares about your every need.  And as they are walking back to their seat their cell phones were going off with jobs and money is pouring in.  The church that we go under the Pastor when we go to Haiti, his church just raised in three months a extra 25,000 US dollars over and above tithes and offerings for their new expanded building, in Haiti the church of a thousand people.

Sid:  Tell me briefly a story of a third world country that your parents were involved with.

Joan:  That is Ukraine.  They went over to Ukraine years and years and years ago, probably about twenty-five, thirty years ago and it was so improvised at the time.  They said “Everybody could take two suitcases, one personal and one of clothes to take over there and to leave.”  And so everybody got over there and Mom preached prosperity God’s way and not the spirit of greed but the Spirit of giving.  And so they were talking about that and people were getting it and they had given in the offering you know and that type of thing.  And they came home and then they went back a year later, told everybody to take a second suitcase of clothes that you could leave over there.  And they get over there and people are driving up in Mercedes, Cadillac’s; they were like “Are we at the right place?”

Sid:  This is Ukraine where you had to stand in lines to five ten blocks long to get one can of beans, that’s how poverty stricken they were.

Joan:  Right, and it was unbelievable and then we get in and the people there they’ve got, you know they got woman sometimes they’ll have a suit and they’ll have a matching purse and then they’re going to have matching shoes and they are going to have a matching hat, not to mention the gloves.  They were looking really really fine and Mom was like going, “What happened?”  They go, “We got the message, we caught the vision you were talking about last year.”  And those people and the people that brought all the extra clothes took them home, gave them to goodwill or another organization.

Sid:  If these principals can operate in third world country, they can operate no matter what happens to the economy in the United States… just average people can move into this realm, you have the faith, you have actually tested God’s word, you have seen that it works and your faith is contagious.  And there are a lot of people listening to us right now that need a contagious faith that God wants you to prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers.

Sid:  I am so excited because we are at the fullness of the Gentile Age, that means according to the words of Jesus, “That the spiritual scales are coming off the eyes of Jewish people.”  And I was instructed many years ago by God to find ten people that are Jewish that believe Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and write a book.  And their stories will be so fascinating that unsaved Jewish people would read their stories, but work into the storyline is scripture. Unsaved people won’t read scripture, but they’ll read a book that has fascinating stories and so I was obedient to the heavenly vision and the book “They Though for Themselves” came out.  We have over 850,000 of these books in print, most in Russian and being distributed systematically throughout the former Soviet Union.  And one of my favorite testimonies in the book is Sharon Allen, because she had such a unique background.  Sharon was very active in the Chabad House in Hassidic Judaism; her daughter was enrolled in the academy.  Her husband was not Jewish, he was planning on converting to Judaism and just before he was ready to convert there was one requirement he could not say yes to he had to renounce Jesus as the Messiah, and Sharon was shocked because he loved Judaism so much, he just didn’t even know that he still believed in Jesus.  He never went to the church or anything, and so she decides this is mischugah, this is crazy; I’m going to read through the Bible and prove to my husband that Yeshua is not the Messiah.  Sharon what happened?

Sharon:  Well, what I did is I started doing my research into the Hebrew Bible and then I went to the Jewish bookstores and I kept getting more and more books on Jewish history, Jewish tradition and of course I read the Talmud, the Midrash.  I read the Shulchan Aruch, with all of the ancient Jewish writings because when I read the Hebrew Bible many of the scriptures in there resembled what people were saying about Jesus and I knew that everything that God wanted us to know about His Jewish Messiah would be in the Hebrew Bible so that we Jews would be able to recognize Him when He would come.  And so when I finished reading the Hebrew Bible there was so many things in there sounded like what Gentiles were saying about their Jesus.

Sid:  You know the one thing that really stuck with me so strongly was when you were wrestling with this, when you had no one to help you but God himself and His holy scriptures; you came across a very interesting character in scripture called the Angel of the Lord.  And then you were shocked that He was actually worshipped.  You’re not supposed to worship an angel; what effect did this have on you?

Sharon:  Well, in Hebrew we say, He’s a Malach HaShem, Malach is Aramaic for messenger and so in the English Bible it says the Angel of the Lord, but in the Hebrew it actually means a messenger of the Tetragrammaton the holiest Name for God.  And every time He appeared to the patriarchs, to the people in the Bible they would see Him, they would fear for their lives, they would fall on the ground and they would say that, they would die because they’ve seen God face to face.  And instead of this Malach HaShem, this messenger of God that carries the holiest name of God within His name; and instead of him saying, “Oh no, I’m just a mere angel, I’m just a mere created being, an angel, don’t fear for your life, you are not going to die.” He never corrected them, but he said to them, “Peace, Shalom.”  He comforted them and then He gave them the information that He wanted them to convey to others.  In other words it is astounding that an angel wouldn’t have corrected them and said, “No, no, no I’m just an angel,” but no He allowed them to believe that they were seeing God faced to face.  The only way He corrected them was to say “You’re not going to die and I give you peace; I give you God’s Shalom.”  And this happened so many times throughout the Hebrew Scriptures.  And for example, in the book of Judges He comes before Manoah so astounded by what he’s seeing that he wants to offer sacrifice and of course and an angel would never have been able to accept a sacrifice.  But this Malach HaShem was very very unique messenger of God accepts the sacrifice and actually goes into the flames and as this Malach HaShem lifted up to the heavens Manoah uses the term pelly, this is pelly which means wonderful, but actually it’s a Hebrew word that can only be attributed to God.  And so we see that in the Hebrew Scriptures there is someone who appears in the shape of a man who actually is not just representing God but seems to be God and to accept sacrifice and everything that goes along with being the Holy One, God.  And this I found astounding and so actually later on when I actually read the New Testament finally I read the New Testament after I became a believer because I became a believer just by reading the Hebrew Scriptures and all of the ancient Jewish documents.  Because even ancient Jewish documents talk about the two pictures of the Messiah that’s in the Hebrew Bible.

Sid:  But Sharon Judaism was so and even today is so important to you, the Rabbis as a class say that Jesus isn’t the Messiah, you’re convinced that Jesus is the Messiah, didn’t you figure that maybe you missed something and He really wasn’t?

Sharon:  Yes, you know it was through my research over and over and over again pouring over all the ancient documents I kept going back to the Jewish book stores, I even bought anti-Missionary books with names such as “You take Jesus, I’ll take God.”  And another book called, “I was a Jewish Cult Buster” all of these books and of course Gerald Sigal’s book called “The Jewish Response to the Christian Missionary.”  And what I kept seeing over and over and over again is that the modern day approach to the Messiah has changed completely changed to what the ancient Jewish writings told about who the Messiah would be; how He would come and where He would born and what He would accomplish and how He would die; and it is all there.  Not just in Hebrew Scriptures but in ancient Jewish documents where the Rabbis spoke of how the Messiah would be and what he would accomplish.  There is a wonderful book by Raphael Patai called “The Messiah Text” which speaks about these ancient documents and how the ancient rabbi’s recognized that there were two pictures of the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible.  They even had names for them, Mashiach ben Yoseph, Messiah son of Joseph, who would come as the suffering servant and Mashiach ben Daveed Messiah son of David, who would come as the Concurring Hero King.  And so time and time again as I researched…

Sid:  But isn’t it fascinating that before the Messiah came they had this revelation knowledge that the Messiah would suffer on behalf of the sins of Jewish people.  The Messiah would be King and rule over Israel and there would be peace on earth.  So the only way they could figure it out before the Messiah came was two Messiah’s but what about one Messiah, two appearances?

Sharon:  Well, it’s kind of interesting because they saw a picture emerging even when they studied the Hebrew language within the Hebrew. Hebrew is the language made up of root letters and when you go and you analyze the root letters it speaks mountains of what the Hebrew writers were trying to convey.  You know that every Hebrew name has a message within every name, every Jewish child that’s born is given a Hebrew name, not just an English name but a Hebrew name and within that name it says that it speaks of the nature and the character of what that name means.  And I found in Genesis Chapter Five there is a genealogy and I thought well, I’m wondering if this is something that is unique to only the Bible and it is there’s a list of names.  We know that there are Adam, Seth, Enoch, Cain and all; the first ten genealogies and when we study that a picture emerges.

Sid:  So let me repeat with you just said, the first ten names mentioned in the Bible starting with Adam going to Noah, each Hebrew name has an English meaning.  And you looked up the English meaning and it almost made a sentence, not almost it made a sentence when you strung the means of each of the first ten names found in Genesis Chapter five. What message did you get from just stringing the definitions of these names together to form a sentence?

Sharon:  Well, I broke down every single name and I do need to say that I did use Hebrew lexicons and I used the Hebrew English…

Sid:  Well, we are running out of time, what was the sentence?

Sharon:  The sentence is Mankind turns their faces towards and are appointed mortal grievance sorrow to lament and to mourn.  And then it goes on to say God who is praised comes down to instruct and to consecrate; He is sent forth as a Prophet Priest to be smitten and scourged to die, to give rest and security and then to give a quiet attitude of peace, Shalom.

Sid:  You know when you mediate on this you have got the best description of the Messiah, Yeshua Jesus.

Bill:  If your eye is evil it means you’re stingy, if your eye is good it means that you’re generous; so what He’s saying is that if you’re stingy get rid of your stinginess, get a generous spirit.

Sid:  And what about when He says cut off your right hand, what does that mean?

Bill:  The same thing that if your hand offends you, which could indicate any number of improper actions; cut it off means stop doing it, it doesn’t mean cut off your hand, it means stop doing that; your right hand is a statement of power.

Sid:  Now Bill you went back to the Hebrew names not in a lot of areas, but like for Jesus you said Yeshua, for Mary you used her Hebrew name Miriam, for law you said Torah, for James you went to his Hebrew name Jacob, for trumpet you say shofar.  Only a few of these adjustments, but what difference does it make whether the Bible says Jesus or Yeshua?

Bill:  Well Yeshua is very significant because that’s the name that was given to Miriam by the angel Gabriel. And Yeshua is a Hebrew word that means to deliver, it’s a verb it means to deliver or to save, but deliverance is the first.  And He came to set us free to deliver us from religious spirits as well as any demonic oppression.

Sid:  Where did we get Jesus from?

Bill:  Because when you write it in Greek, Greek has no “sh” sound. So it couldn’t be Yeshu, it comes out Yaysu, and when that was translated into Latin, the same letters the Latin equivalent of the Greek, are used for His name.  And when that was translated into English, in the Middle Ages, what they did was they used the German “j” for “i” because in German the “j” is equivalent of the Hebrew yod. And the Saxon’s had come in and taken over England and brought a German influence into the English language.  So it was actually pronounced Yaysu in English originally, but in a few hundred years that had changed dramatically and it had our modern J sound.  So that’s how the “j” came in.

Sid:  How did we get James from Jacob?  They are not the same they are two different people?  And we have Jacob in the Jewish Scriptures and the Hebrew Scriptures so why should we have Jacob in the New Testament?

Bill:  That’s because the group that was hired to translate the King James Version wanted to bless their benefactor and it’s named after King James.

Sid:  And so they changed his name to James.  I wonder how many Christians know that.

Bill:  Yeah, not very many.

Sid:  Okay, but I don’t get those two so maybe I’ll try for a third. What about how did we get Mary instead of Miriam?  I mean why don’t we change Miriam to the sister of Moses in the Hebrew Scriptures?

Bill:  Maria is the Latin instead of Mary.

Sid:   Why do we want a Latin name, why should we have her name?

Bill:  Because the first English translations were made from the Latin Vulgate text and there are a number of Latin words that didn’t get translated. That’s the “mansion” in John 15, it’s the tabernacle, it’s the tabernacle of David, the Word in the Hebrew is not tabernacle it’s Sukkoth and that’s from Amos, Amos nine where the Booth of David is resurrected and restored and it’s speaking of the Kingly line.

Sid:  And we always thought it was the place where David worshipped. So what you’re saying about all this teaching about David’s Tabernacle, where did it come from, why did they mistranslate the Latin?

Bill:  Because they didn’t.  They didn’t translate the Latin word tabernaculum. Latin did not have a word for booth and it’s word for tent was tabernaculum. So that was used for the tabernacle in the wilderness, which is the Hebrew word “mishcahn” and we don’t have an English word for “mishcahn” so tabernacle is entirely appropriate to use there, but a tent, we haven’t a word for, we should use tent.  Booth we have a word for it is Sukkoth we need to have booth of David to put that in perspective, so we know that we are talking about the Messianic Reign.  And in Acts 15 it says to go on talking about world evangelism.  And that’s what it’s for the Messianic Reign is going to take the word of God throughout the earth absolutely.

Sid:  Okay, I’m having difficulty understanding what you’ve said already as to why they did that so let’s try another one.  How did they get a trumpet? I know what a trumpet is, you know, but it’s not a shofar, why did they switch shofar to trumpet. It definitely wasn’t a trumpet with the three keys, you know.

Bill:  You’re right.  Well the Latin used the word for trumpet instead of the word for shofar, it doesn’t have shofar in either Greek or Latin. So when the first English translations were made the people were the people were ignorant of the shofar and they just translated it trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets there is no trumpet blown, of course you know that.

Sid:  I’ve never seen a trumpet in the synagogue. I mean these may sound like little things to people, but I’m interested in truth. In fact I have to ask you this question, you took twenty years on this project, the One New Man Bible, and were you after trying to reinforce your beliefs when you did these translations?

Bill:  No I didn’t. I just wanted to find truth, that’s all I was looking for. I was, of course wanted to grow in the Lord, I did not try to impose my ideas, in fact as I dug in it changed my theology not that I changed the theology in the Bible.

Sid:  Now the books in the Hebrew Scriptures are not in the same order as say the Bibles used in Christianity. Who’s right, who’s wrong?

Bill: Well I really love the Jewish book order. It is so much easier to follow, to understand.

Sid:  Now, wait a second, the last book in the Jewish Scriptures is Chronicles. How does that fit with the first book of the New Testament?

Bill:  Oh, it’s beautiful.  See Chronicles was the last book written in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Sid:  You know I think that it’s important to know what was the last book in the Hebrew Scriptures; opposed to Malachi it was Chronicles.

Bill:  Right.

Sid:  I think that’s a very important thing, but if you go from Chronicles to Matthew how does that work out?  Does it work out better than Malachi to Matthew?

Bill:  It is, it’s a beautiful flow, in fact that book order flows beautifully from Genesis all the way through, not just Chronicles but on through Revelation.  It really is an easy book to read cover to cover.  And do it time after time after time, every time you do it, every time you read it you gain new things.  You see things you’ve never seen before, and it’s awesome in the way you can just feel the flow going from Chronicles into Matthew.

Sid:  And speaking about the flow another thing I found interesting, you’ve made note of what are the Torah readings and the readings from the prophets that are read in every synagogue from the time of Jesus. They were read when Jesus would go into the synagogue that’s what He would read for that particular day it was His readings and that’s still being read today in synagogues throughout the world.  Do you find this fascinating to know what Jesus read on the particular day from the Torah, and it’s being read today in synagogues all over the world?

Bill:  That’s it and it’s really wonderful, my wife and I read that at home.

Sid:  Whoops were out of time.

Bill:  I used the fourth addition United Bible Society Greek text.

Sid:  Now why did you choose that?

Bill:  Because it’s the newest, the latest, the United Bible Society is a group that meets in Germany, but their multinational. And they have made their life work to be searching the ancient Greek manuscripts to determine which ones are closest to the original.  They use methods similar to that used in researching the Greek Classics, but it’s called textual criticism. But that’s the most accurate that we have and the closest to what was written in the first century.

Sid:  Okay, so you have this approved Jewish Scriptures; you have the best Greek translation; you study Greek under a top expert; you study Hebrew under the expert of experts Rabbi Eliezer Ben-Yehuda.  Who is the grandson of the man Ben Yehudah who’s the grandson of the man that literally pioneered Modern Hebrew in Israel.  Without him we would not be able to have one language for all these Jew coming from the four corners of the earth that are being restored.  Why was it important for you to bring out the power that was formerly neglected in the New Covenant, why was that important for you to bring it out?

Bill:  God is very very powerful in the way He talks and the way that He directs people.  One of my favorite examples is when He spoke to Moses.  He said to go into Pharaoh; He didn’t say plead with Moses “Let My People go.”  What He said was go in to command them, “Send My people away.”  I mean that makes a world of difference and you can imagine for a slave Pharaoh could behead without having second thought going and standing in front of Pharaoh and giving him a commandment to do something that Pharaoh very definitely did not want to do.  And yet Pharaoh could see that the Spirit of God on Moses and on Aaron and he did not kill them obviously; and he even said pray for me, so Pharaoh was intimated by God’s presence in Moses and it doesn’t show when he goes in and pleads with Moses.  But when you understand that Moses didn’t go into plead with Pharaoh Moses went in there to command him and that’s just to me one of the most awesome statements in scripture.

Sid:  Well as I’m looking over your fresh brand new translation, you deal with things that most of us that are listening right now don’t have a clue, but it’s so important.  For instance, you have the Hebrew negative and imperative tense do not in bold, explain why you did that.

Bill:  Because this is one Rabbi Ben-Yehuda was very strong on, he said that there’s no comparative to the Hebrew negative command, the negative imperative that the closest I can come with is don’t even think about doing.  But it’s even stronger than that, and it’s used a number of times.  In fact one of the words that is often missed translated is the Hebrew word for respect, revere or awe and we translate it as fear.  Well God commands us not only not to have fear, He commands us to not be in awe at any of our enemy, any of our dangerous circumstances.  Any unpleasantness that we have, we are not to be awed by that, we’re to be just take it in stride and it’s a command to do that. Just God wants us to know who we are in Him.  We have to know, we have the Spirit of the living God in us and that just as Moses was taught to go into Pharaoh, we are to approach the world in the same way.  But Moses was the most humble man in the world so we have a question of humility plus self-confidence, that when we know we have the Lord in us, and He is directing us and we are in His perfect will.  We have the strength and the ability to do anything.

Sid:  Now why is it important for a Christian that isn’t Jewish that’s not in a Jewish culture to understand the Jewish roots of Christianity?  Why is that important?

Bill:  Well, because Jesus was born a Jew, He lived a Jew, he died a Jew. He’s the same yesterday, today, and forever into the future.  We need to understand what He understood; we need to worship as He worshipped; we need to celebrate the holidays that He celebrated.  We just need to copy Him; were supposed to become more like Him.

Sid:  Let me ask you this, you were a Spirit filled believer, you understood Healing, you loved the Lord, but in 1984 when you went to Israel you knew that there was something wrong.  Now that you’ve done all these studies I don’t know how you did it there is some 4,300 footnotes on words and customs and culture, a 170 page glossary.  What difference has it made to your life Bill Morford?

Bill:  It has increased my faith; increased my understanding with God; increased my understanding of scripture as I can relate it more to my life today.  And it has given me more power in my prophetic words. I am ordained at Christian International under Bishop Hammond and we do a lot of prophecy.

Sid:  Bill, I understand why you’re so excited about the Jewish roots. For instance, the average Christian doesn’t know unless they had your Bible of course that communion literally comes out of Passover, explain that.

Bill:  Oh, that’s beautiful it comes from Exodus 6 verses 6 & 7, and what we do when we’re taking communion it’s given properly in Luke 22 starting with verse 17.  When Jesus lifted the first cup what He was referring to from Exodus 6 verse 6 is God said, “I will bring you out from Egypt.”  Which to all of us modern Christians means that He is bringing us out of the world, Egypt represents the world, the worldliness which were supposed to be…

Sid:  Wait, well for starters some may not even realize at the Passover meal we have four cups of wine so the first cup means what?

Bill:  I will bring you out from Egypt that God is bringing us out from our desire for worldly things and from the oppression of the world.  And the second cup which is being drunk during the meal is I will rescue you from your bondage and that’s deliverance from all demonic spirits that we have with that cup.  The third cup is called the cup of redemption, and this is the one that Jesus lifted and said “This is the cup of the renewed covenant in my blood which is being poured out for you today.”

Sid:  It’s so much richer when you understand in context and that whole context the first church totally understood but we don’t understand it today.  How can anyone comprehend communion without knowing Passover Bill?

Bill:  Right, you can’t do it; you get the full understanding when you know that. So that is footnoted in the Bible then that’s in, there’s an article in the seasons of the Lord in my glossary on that.

Sid:  You must have studied a lot of Jewish literature to do 4,300 footnotes and a 170 page glossary.

Bill:  That I did, that I did I have a wonderful library now for reference books.  I can just go anywhere in the Bible and backup the things that I have put in those footnotes; they’re very real to me and they’re real to everybody, That’s why this was important.

Sid:  Bill, we’re out of time.

Craig:  That is absolutely true Sid because things, whether we like it or not they absolutely do flow generationally from one generation to the next.

Sid:   Now you have a story in your book that is so appropriate, it has to do with the revolutionary war; tell me about that.

Craig:  Yes, that was one of the first revelations that I got when Jan and I were struggling in our own marriage and we had so much difficulty in communication.  We were wounding each other and the thing that I couldn’t understand Sid, is that I am trying as a husband so hard to bless her, to love her and to make her feel loved and yet I’m hurting her and wounding her; why is that happening all the time?  And right about that time I saw a movie on television that was about the revolutionary war and suddenly the Holy Spirit just quickened something supernaturally to me that I had never understood before.  And the story was this, it was just about the beginning of the American Revolution and here were the British Red Coats marching up the road toward Concord and Lexington and the American Militia had come out to meet them and the two troops were standing face to face facing each other and the two generals were getting in between talking with each other.  Unbeknownst to anybody was an arms dealer who was in the bushes behind a wall over to the side.  Now this arms dealer didn’t care about the British, he didn’t care about the Americans he didn’t care about politics at all; he just wanted to start a war because his purpose was to see arms to both sides.  So while no one was looking behind this wall the arms dealer took a shot, shot and killed the Second Command British Officer who fell over dead.  Well you can imagine what the British Commander immediately did, he assumed that his officer had been shot by one of the American Militia so he immediately terminated his negotiation and gave an order to his men, “Fire!”  And so the British soldiers fired upon the American Colonist, the American General of course then issued an order to his men, “Fire,” and they both did and the war was on.  Now that very first shot that was fired was called the shot that was heard around the world because it was the shot that started the war, or started the American Revolution; but the amazing thing was and I don’t know if this is historically accurate or not, but the amazing thing was that that shot was not fired by either side, it was fired by a disinterested arms dealer hiding behind a wall, that really didn’t care about either side just wanted a war.

Sid:    He just wanted to make money from the war.

Craig:  Absolutely and the amazing thing is, if you ask either commander, if you ask the British Commander did you start this?  He would say, absolutely not!  Unprovoked for no reason they shot my Second in Command and we responded in self dense.  If you were to ask the American General did you start this?  He would say absolutely not, for absolutely no known reason totally unprovoked the British General gave an order to his men to fire upon us and we returned fire in self defense so both parties were totally convinced that they were firing in self-defense, not realizing what had happened.  And the revelation I got Sid, is that this is exactly what the Apostle Paul is talking about in Ephesians Chapter 6 verses 10-12 when he says that “Our battle is not against flesh and blood, but we wrestle against spiritual rulers of the darkness of this age; against powers and against spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places and that we are to take up the whole armor of God.”  And what suddenly dawned on me was what was going on in my marriage was that there were unseen spiritual forces in the kingdom of darkness that were using my mouth and using my actions to send a message to my wife; you have no value, you’re worthless, I don’t love you, I don’t care about you.  And the clincher was I didn’t know that it was happening when it was happening.  And of course the problem for every husband is, “How on earth are you going to repent of something that you don’t even know happened?”  When my wife would say, “You hurt me, you don’t love me, you don’t care about me.”  What that felt like to me as a husband was a false accusation.  And I would say, “Why would you say that, I’m doing everything I know to try to love you, to try to care about you.”

Sid:  You must have been so frustrated.

Craig:  I was completely frustrated because everything I was doing I was doing was to try to convince her that I love her and yet what she continually was tell me is, “You don’t love me, you don’t care about me.”  And what it felt like to me was that there was absolutely nothing I could do that would ever please my wife.  You know Sid, the Holy Spirit is speaking to me right now; there is a man listening to this broadcast whose in exactly that situation, you have done everything you know to do to try to convince your wife that you love her and all you hear from her is, “You did this wrong, you did that wrong, your displeasing to me and the Holy Spirit says that if you will grab hold of these principals and you will begin to walk in them supernaturally that God will heal and change that marriage.”  Is it okay Sid, if I just pray for that man right now?

Sid:  Please, it’s the Holy Spirit’s platform, not mine.

Craig:  Father, I pray for that man listening to the broadcast right now, and you know that it’s you because your heart if pounding on the inside, and you’ve done everything that you know to please you wife.  Father, I pray that you would supernaturally begin to heal that marriage.  That you would give this man Your supernatural insight and wisdom to know exactly know what to say to his wife, how to penetrate the shell that she’s put around her heart.  And all the accusation that’s coming from her toward him, I pray that You would break through that and that today would start something supernaturally new in that relationship in the Name of Yeshua.

Sid:  You know, these principals are so wonderful that are outlined in his book, “Two Fleas No Dog” let’s give some people extraordinary hope that are hopeless right now Craig.  Tell us about the couple that was divorced for six years from Wisconsin that came to a teaching where you taught the principals of the book, “Two Fleas No Dog.”

Craig:  Yes, this couple came to one of the retreats, marriage retreats that we did where we were teaching these principals and it was funny Sid, because they actually came, they were living in two different towns nearby.  They sat on different sides to the room and it was obvious that somebody else had compelled them to come; neither of them want to be there; but somehow or another they actually did come.  And we watched their faces as these principals were shared we could see it wasn’t just the principals but the Holy Spirit was doing something supernatural in the hearts of this man and this woman.  And by the end of this weekend they were sitting next to each other; they were looking each other in the eyes; they were repenting and asking forgiveness for the ways that they had hurt each other.  And you know one of the first things that they both came to realize was that neither of them wanted this divorce; neither of them wanted the pain that they had caused each other in their marriage and actually what was taking place was that the arms dealer was the only one that wanted it and had set them both up without them realizing it or knowing it.  They had been used by the enemy to wound and deeply hurt each other.  And for the first time they began to realize and understand, the woman began to realize that my husband didn’t want to hurt me; and the husband began to realize my wife’s intent was not to criticize and judge and push me away and hurt me.  And they both realized that they had been set up and used by the arms dealer.  An incredible thing happened, at the end of the weekend, they came to us and said, “We want to be remarried, could you refer us to a church in this area where we could both go and begin to restore our relationship, get some ongoing counseling and restore our marriage?”  They did do that and about three months later they were married again to each other and that was a couple of years ago and they have been doing very, very well since.

Sid:  You know, I was shocked when I read the statistics that you outline in your book that one in two Christian marriages end in divorce; but one in 1,100 end in divorce if people pray together.

Craig:  That’s exactly right, and I think that people don’t realize how powerful prayer is and it’s not just prayer it’s the intimacy that is created by prayer.

Sid:  And you explain how a husband and wife can have intimacy in prayer way beyond anything they ever thought, some of the principals of how to pray together.

Craig: We give people in the book, Sid a very simple strategy of if they would pray together using three specific topics or ways of praying as we share in the book for six minutes a day, it changes from 1 in 2 to 1 in1,100 that would be divorced.  Now that’s an incredible change, and what it really had to do with is people looking into each other’s eyes; people inviting the Living God to come and be present in their marriage and learning to be thankful for each other.  Learning to bless each other; learning to keep short accounts and when they do wound and hurt each other to understand who it is who set them up and how to deal with that enemy.

Sid:  Now, I read a section in your book that I have never heard taught, as a matter of fact coming from a Jewish background, I think I would understand Passover better than a Gentile Christian, I have been celebrating Passover all my life.  But the whole concept of the blood on the doorpost and it’s taught backwards in Judaism and backwards in Christianity.

Craig:  That’s exactly what I discovered some years ago as I began to study that out Sid, and that really came from an understanding; on of the first understandings that God gave me in my marriage was that our marriage was a blood covenant.  Meaning that it was something that was irrevocably, it was something that I was going to persevere in for life, but when I saw this picture of Passover, I was shocked as you were.

Sid:  Before you even get there, explain the difference between a contract and a blood covenant.

Craig:  Yeah, I think what’s happened in our society is that people had more of a covenant some years ago, but it’s degenerated into the concept of a contract.  And as I began to study those out a covenant is something is unilateral, unconditional and irrevocable.  A contract is something that is very conditional, revocable and certainly not unilateral.

Sid:  Oh evay we’re out of time.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. And I have to tell you I have been so looking forward to this interview. My guest is Surprise Sithole, and Surprise, how did you get the name “Surprise”?

SURPRISE: I got the name because of this spot here on my side (points to head).

SID: I see it.

SURPRISE: Yes, when I was born, they were not expecting to have somebody with gray hair coming out.

SID: That’s unusual in Africa.

SURPRISE: Yes. Yes, yes.  So when I was coming they say “Oh! It’s a Surprise.”

SID: I see. Now when you were six months old, a dog ripped your eye out. Tell us about that.

SURPRISE: Yes. That’s why you see this scar here. You can see the scar. When I was six months, old a dog was eating the food and then I was just approaching, crawling to the dog food, and the dog ripped, bite me here and the eye fall out.

SID: Completely out of your body?

SURPRISE: Completely out. So my mother with a piece of cloth run and get the eye and put it back, and tied it here, and it stayed there for two weeks. And after the two weeks they opened and my eyes were fine.

SID: Now you were born in Mozambique?

SURPRISE: I was born in Mozambique, yes.

SID: You have to understand, Surprise came from more generations of witch doctors than he can remember. But when you were young man, you heard a voice. Tell me about that.

SURPRISE: Yes. When I was a young man, I heard a voice. We were sleeping in a small mud hut, and the voice was so loud. “Surprise, Surprise, wake up! Move out from your village. Surprise, Surprise, wake up. Move from your village.” Well when I woke up my father and my mother, they were sleeping. I woke up. “Who is this one that is speaking?” “Move from your village. If you don’t move, you die. Move from your village. If you don’t move you die.” I woke up. I went to the house of my friend, Garfar, that night. And I told Garfar what had happened to me. I said, “I’m going away from the village.” Garfar said to me, “I will go with you wherever you go.” Okay, so we took off. It was a very small trail in the jungle; forest is where we were living, a lot of mosquitoes, a lot of malaria bugs, and all kinds of that stuff. So we started walking on a small trail. We got lost. We stayed in the jungle for two weeks. Later on, we are there at the bottom of Malawi in a village called Villanova. So when we appeared there, there was a man that he had a dream. His name, this man is Lucas. This man had a dream. “Go to one of the trees, acacia tree. Go to that acacia tree. You will see two boys coming from the jungle. Get them into your house.” And then this man, the following day after his dream, he went to that tree. And while he was on that tree, we were coming near, me and my friend, Garfar. And then he said to us, “I was just here to wait for you. Let’s go to my house.”

SID: I mean this is pretty supernatural! He hears a voice. He leaves his home. A man meets him. Did this man know Jesus?

SURPRISE: Yes, he was a Christian.

SID: He led you to know Jesus.

SURPRISE: The following day, yes.

SID: And what he found out is if he had not been obedient and left his house, what happened to everyone in your house?

SURPRISE: This is what happened. The following day, we gave our life to Jesus before that man, Mr. Lucas. And then because we were two weeks in the jungle; now later on the fisherman was just going to Malawi to sell the fish, and he said, in the village, such and such family they all died. How they died, the village people took a bile of crocodile. The bile of crocodile is very poisonous. They put it into the maze meal. They mixed it with the bile of crocodile. They take the food to give to my family.

SID: So your family was all poisoned.

SURPRISE: Yes, they were.

SID: If you had lived there, you would have been poisoned.

SURPRISE: I like to eat, so…

SID: So get this. A voice tells him to leave. What did you…?  Coming from all those generations of witch doctors, had anyone told you about Jesus before this?

SURPRISE: Before then, we didn’t know anything about Jesus, no.

SID: Are you the first one in your family?

SURPRISE: I’m first generation, yes, believer.

SID: Okay. You told me that you had a dream or almost a vision just before you received Jesus. Tell me about that.

SURPRISE: The dream was a vision. When Mr. Lucas was telling us about the Creation, he was explaining the Creation said the Creation, so, so, so. And then he started talking a little bit about the plan of God. So suddenly, I saw my eyes was just like changing, not in there any more. So I was seeing I was in the ledge. And this was the Hell. And then I’m ready to go into it. So then I started crying and shaking. And Mr. Lucas said, “No, as long as you breathe you have a chance.”

SID: How did you even know about Hell?

SURPRISE: Oh, well he was talking, while he was talking the plan of God.

SID: What did see with your eyes?

SURPRISE: What I really saw in my eyes, I was standing like in this place. It was on the ledge and this is very deep, steep, something and the smoke is coming out, and the flames of fires coming out, and then I was ready my life to go into it. So then I started shaking.

SID: So you were like being pushed over a ledge.

SURPRISE: Yes.

SID: Did you feel like it was real? Was it like flames of fire?

SURPRISE: Well I felt that I was shaking and crying tear down.

SID: Now today, Surprise, remember how he got his name; he was a big surprise. Africans in Malawi, in Mozambique, they don’t have gray hair when they’re born like that. And he has prayed for eight people that were dead that have come back to life. His associates have prayed for over a hundred. And I understand they don’t even count someone that they were dead and they came back to life unless they were dead for a while. Tell me what they look for to count someone as dead.

SURPRISE: At least a day.

SID: At least a day they have to be dead.

SURPRISE: At least a day because some people just had a heart attack, fainting.

SID: Okay. I want to find out the first time he prayed for a dead person that came back to life. Don’t go away. We’ll be back.

Matt:  Yeah, Sid we were having a morning meeting that day and later a night meeting.  It was in the morning service I was standing in worship and the spot next to me on my left side was empty there was no one sitting there.  Suddenly during the worship time I felt a burning heat coming from my left side and I thought to myself at first there is a pillar of fire standing next to me in the room.  And I put my hand out to the left and as my hand went into the air the air was burning hot, it was a different temperature than the other air; then I pulled my hand out and it got cold, put my hand in it got hot again.  And then the Holy Spirit spoke to me, He said, “I’ve sent a seraphim fiery angel into the meeting today.”  So then God moved powerfully during that service.  But then later that night we were coming back to the church; I was in the restaurant with the Pastor and few other people before the service started and my body started getting hot again and I took my jacket off and I just was feeling this tremendous heat.  When we walked into the church I stood up to preach and when I went to open up my mouth God literally struck me mute.  He would not let me talk and I’m standing there in front of a crowd packed out church full of people and I go to talk you know and they’re waiting for me to say something but no words are coming out.  I totally lose the ability to speak and lasted for about two hours.  As I stood there on the platform behind the pulpit that seraphim angel came into the meeting and the fire of God started to feel the atmosphere.  The physical temperature got so dramatically hot, people started taking off their extra layers of clothes, they started opening up the doors the windows.  And for two hours the tangible fire of God moved through that church.  People were set free, they were purged, they were delivered.  It was a visitation of the fire of God.

Sid:  Is that sort of encounter going to be happening more and more because we’re really in the last of the last days right now.  What is God showing you that will be happening on planet earth as far as the supernatural?

Matt:  Well, you know God has a vision and His vision is of the whole earth will be covered with knowledge of the Glory of God.  And I believe as time accelerates, as we get closer to the end there is an acceleration happening; you see it all around.  You see it even in what’s happening in nature and I think you know that it’s good to mention you know we see a lot of earthquakes, we see a lot of lot of tornadoes; we see these crazy tumultuous things happening within nature itself.  It’s a sign that it’s accelerating to the point of Christ return because all of nature is groaning for the manifestation of the sons of God.  And when we talk about the sons of God were talking about the church.  And you know when you study that in the Greek son of God means, mature son; so when we talk about the earth being covered with the Glory were talking about God raising up in the last days as time is accelerating right now.  God is raising up mature sons, mature daughters who will know how to walk in the Spirit; how to be lead by the Spirit; how to walk in the Glory; how to live in the Glory; how to release the Glory and how to see how God’s presence and power literally be released over nations; over regions; over whole aspects of society.  And I believe that these days of acceleration we’re going to see an acceleration of His Glory an acceleration of people really being lead by the Holy Spirit; walking in the power of the Spirit because these are the mature sons.

Sid:  Now you told me that we’re coming into, for lack of a better words a choice of people are going to have to choose to get rid of the giants in their life or fall to these giants.  I mean there’s no in between and especially with there’s going to be a transition of spiritual leaders.  What did God show you?

Matt:  Yeah, we are in a very I want to say crucial time right now, crucial time, almost life and death in some situations.  There are right I believe right now leaders, spiritual leaders, people in the body; we are at a point of facing our giants.  Every person will have some sort of giant in their life; it could be some area of their personality that they are dealing with; an area of their flesh; it could be a trial, a temptation and an issue; a character issue.  It could be any number of things but the Lord is calling us right now to face our giants head on.  If we will face our giants head on like David confronted Goliath there will be, for those who will make the choice confront their giants, deal with their giants and by God’s power see those things taken down in their life.  After David defeated the giant the crown of authority of kingship was brought to David.  His choice to confront the giant literally drew the crown of promotion into his life and brought him to his next level of fulfillment of His destiny.  So as people right now make the choice to face their giants, deal with their issues; deal with their issues in private with the Lord, there will be a promotion and an increase drawn to them in their life.  But for those who choose not to deal with their giants there will be consequences for that.

Sid:  Now one of the things that you shared earlier this week is you had a private visitation just before Oral Roberts promotion to heaven in which he taught you about love and laid hands for a special impartation.  Tell me an example of what’s been happening in your life.  For instance the woman in Wales that was so skeptical how did love affect that healing?

Matt:  Yes, you know Sid, we’ve seen love be the key, the key for the real genuine power of God, this woman, you know we were in a meeting and the altar was filled with people, we were praying for the sick and the Lord showed me this woman sitting way back in her chair.  And he told me to go pray for her.  And I said, “Lord, I said if she needed prayer she would up here at the altar, I don’t think she wants prayer, she is sitting down.”  And God said, “Go pray for her.”  So I left the altar and I walked back to where she was sitting and I looked down at her and I said, “Can I pray for you?”  And she looked up at me and she said, “No!  I don’t want you to pray for me and she was angry and mean and bitter and just had a lot of stuff going on.”  And I looked up at God and I said, “God, I told you she didn’t want prayer.”  And the Lord just again spoke to me, “Pray for her.”  So as I looked at her again and I said, “Can I pray for you?”  She began to tell me all of the sickness that was in her body and she kept going on and on and on.  And she said, “I’ve had every person pray for me, I’ve gone to the doctors, I even had this part of my organ taken out of my body and I still have all the pain, I still have all the sickness that the doctors can’t help me, God won’t heal me.” And she was just in a very depressed, very dark place, so I just closed my eyes and I started praying in the Spirit because I had to get out of the natural, if I let myself get caught in where this woman was, it would hinder me from being able to pray for her.  So I closed my eyes, started praying in the Spirit, as I was praying I the Spirit suddenly in my heart I started to feel this love rise up in me.  I didn’t care if this woman was telling me off, if she wanted to slap me, all’s I could feel and I literally felt it was God’s love for her.  His heart, His overwhelming love for this woman and the power of God was released on her.  I mean she stood there with her eyes open; she wouldn’t even bow her head to pray.  But you what God loved her so much and he saw through all of the issues of her life, he saw the hurt in her heart and the pain in her heart and you know what?  His love overcame it all, and suddenly this power of God came upon her and that woman was totally healed.  And not only was she healed, but she started laughing, she started laughing and crying and she said to me, “All the pain is gone,” she said, “But not only is the pain gone I could feel the presence of God again and I haven’t felt Him in five years, I felt so dead I’ve haven’t felt alive, I haven’t felt God in five years and I feel His presence throughout all of my being right now.”  So the Lord, not only healed her but He revived her, stored her and it flowed out of God’s love.

Sid:  …Matt, very briefly the anointing is so strong I’m tell you in the Name of Jesus oppression is leaving people, you must leave you spirit of oppression right now.  Matt pray for healing, for miracles right now.

Matt:  Thank you Lord; Father, I thank you right now that you’re anointing is going over the airwaves your tangible presence, we take authority over sickness, we take authority over oppression, over depression, Lord over every form of sickness and disease and infirmity and we say in the Name of Jesus Christ, be healed, be loosed from your infirmity, be loosed from that depression, be loosed into God’s healing and wholeness and freedom, in Jesus Name.  We declare it over you now.  Thank you Lord.

Sid:  There are people; it’s especially a spirit of oppression Matt.  And we agree two or more agree touching anyone thing and in Jesus Name we agree that back has just been healed and that neck has just been healed.  But we agree in Jesus Name you spirit of oppression you must get off of people right now.

Joan:  Yes, she did.  She told me that you know, she knew that she was getting ready to go and she says, don’t worry, you know my last breath here and my next breath will be with Jesus.

Sid:  And, but even though there’s still the human element and there’s a natural process called grieving.  And there are many that are listening to us Joan that have gone through this grieving process or are still in the grieving process but I have seen over the years that sometimes it almost gets demonic and they’re in the grieving process much longer than they should be.  How did this work with you?

Joan:  Well, in my particular case any time that there is a traumatic experience, say death, many times; all the times it will affect the heart.  And can open up the door for a spirit of trauma and a spirit of grief.  And I felt that grief coming on me about a week or two after my Mom had gone and I said, “Grief you cannot make your home in me.”  And I said, “Any spirit of grief, any spirit of trauma, is commanded to go.”  I felt my voice weakening, which a lot of time trauma will settle in the voice and in the vocal chords.  And I said, “Father right now in the Name of Jesus, I command every bit of trauma and grief to leave my body in Jesus Name.”  And it instantly left and I said Hallelujah and my voice was completely back to normal, just instantly like that and it was absolutely awesome what God has done in my life through this time.  That I say, okay you don’t have to deal and put up with a spirit of grief, and now I have actually proven it, that you don’t have to put up with it and that you can get rid of it.  And now there’s a time of loss and I miss my Mom and I miss her calling me and leaving me voice mails and saying you know “How many miracles did you have, and how’s the service and things like that.”  It’s you know I want to tell her about my new book and how well it’s doing, but she’s not there to tell and so there’s a natural missing of the communication that I had with my Mom here on the earth, but the heaviness, the grief, the sorrow, the trauma of my Mom with her death is just not there.  And it is so miraculous what God has done in my life.  As you know in my life, as you know through the years my life is a testimony of that if God can do it for me, God can do it for anybody.

Sid:  Yeah, you know what I’m thinking about as you’re speaking, because I’m thinking about your Mother and oh, I go back many, many years with your Mother and Father.  I remember as a new Jewish believer going to one of their meetings and they would hands on people and they’d be slain in the Spirit and it wasn’t that well known, back then.  It was kind of a rarity for that to happen.  And I remember, she said, “Well anyone else that once to do it we want everyone to just come up and lay hands on people and I remember going up; I was just in the audience and laying hands on people and they started being slain in the Spirit.  I was so astounded.

Joan:  You were a real believer at that point!

Sid:  Oh, I was but one of the thoughts that I have as I’m speaking to you is how inadequate you felt to step into their shoes and as a matter of fact what did you share with me about your Mother’s mantle?

Joan:  Well, stepping into what God has called me to do being their daughter was hard enough.  And people tried to make me a second generation Francis Hunter.  And as in comparison to me being a first and only generation of Joan Hunter and what God has called Joan to do.  And as I sharing with Sid about the mantle was that two weeks before my Mom died she has this beautiful necklace with diamonds and everything and the center of it is a heart.  And she said, I want to put it on you, her fingers were no longer nimble, she just couldn’t do it and so I learned forward as the caregiver actually put the necklace on me and she symbolically put the necklace on me.  And she says wear this for me and she says with my necklace, I give you my mantle.  And instantaneously from that moment on there has been; two weeks before she left a dramatic difference in the services of getting an increased anointing because of the mantle.  And it has been amazing.  And even the number of people that are getting slain in the Spirit in the services has increased and the miracles that have happened and just in the last two weeks, I’ve seen thousands of healings.

Sid:  Well, I have to say this publically, we had when you did our radio and television show last, we had more miracles occur than anyone that I had ever interviewed.  And so I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen with this increase for the radio and for the television.  But, I’m also reminded of a young girl that was literally forced by her mother to come out of her comfort zone.  Is that true?

Joan:  Yes, and I remember traveling with Mom and Dad you know when I was in my early twenties and I’m past my mid fifties now, but when I was in my early twenties and I knew that people didn’t come to see me, they came to see them.  And it was like dealing with people you know wanting to see Mom and Dad rather than you know, I don’t care who prays for me I just want Jesus to heal me.  And to this day I will never compare to my mother.  But I’m not supposed to compare to my mother.  I’m supposed to be, I’m her daughter, I have a lot of similarities because she is my Mom, but I’m not my Mom.  But having to deal with such a strong personality as she had and, but that could and it did cause me to go to the background to not be seen to go to the big curtain and hide.  But when I knew that God had called me to come out from behind the curtain, to come out from my comfort zone and my hiding and that God could use me just as much if not more than my mother.

Sid:  And you were very public about, you were devastated by a divorce and thought that would be the end of your healing ministry.

Joan:  That would be the end of every ministry, sure.  And you know with being forced with divorce, it’s ten years ago, it’s hard to believe, but you know he was living a double life as a homosexual and because of that life style, God had released me to get the divorce because you know in covenant with somebody you’re also involved in that lifestyle whether you are actually participating in it or not.  It is a form of condoning it and God just said, “I’ve freed you up.” And it was like, people were telling God can’t use you anymore because you’re divorced.  And I’m like how come these people are still getting healed and this is happening?  But people say that you can’t use me.  And at that point I just talked to God and I said, “What am I suppose to do and he said, “Just remember there not the ones that called you, I am.”  And that gave me so much freedom knowing that God was the one that called me, God forgave me of the divorce even though it wasn’t my fault, any part of it, you know in actually getting the divorce was forgiven.  And it enabled me go on and to be all that God had called me to be.  And even though his unfaithfulness to God and to me, meaning my ex-husband that did not mean that I was not faithful to God.  And God has seen my faithfulness through these years.  And he has certainly met my need in every area and it’s just been incredible.  It’s very easy to succumb to the word divorce and this that and the other and the loss of your spouse.  And you know children and whatever and parents and we can succumb to that and allow it to shut us down or we can in turn allow it to build us up into all that God has for us.

Sid:  …this is the way I look at it, you spend forty years in the healing ministry, most of that time with your parents so we have their generation, what they imparted to you and then what the Holy Spirit imparted to you to build upon what the foundation they gave you.  So it’s almost two generations of studying healing and being and understanding every facet of healing…

Sid:  Now, my guest, Chuck Pierce had a revelation from God when he was eighteen, which has affected his entire life.  Based on these revelations he was able to break off years maybe centuries of vexation on his family and curses on his family; and came into all this revelation.  But on yesterday’s broadcast I said, “I was going to tell everyone something that will astound them; you revealed that God showed you that by 2016 China will dominate the economy and  not just in the United States, but even worldwide.”  And I said to you “How could that be Chuck?  China is not particularly a friend of Israel and you said to me.

Chuck:  They will be one of the greatest nations that see the investment of Israel for a season.  Starting in 20 by 2016 through 2026 they will see that Israel teaches them how to prosper in days ahead.

Sid:  Well, you know there are many people that are one issue people in elections.  Some people, there one issue is their pocketbook, other people there one issue is moral issues such as homosexuality, or abortion and rightfully so I might say.  But I’m becoming more and more aware that if someone is a one issue voter that one issue must be does that one woman have a grasp of the blessings of God or the curses of God as a result of being a friend of Israel?

Chuck:   Sid, look how Germany has made recovery, look how they moved forward because they too have recognized and come into a measure of reconciliation with Israel.  I’m going to tell you you’re going have to tell you’re going to have to look and say how do we align?  If not, see what’s happening now it’s going to be the Middle East, it use to be Israel in the Middle East, now it’s going to be the Middle East against Israel and you’re going to have to determine which group you’re running with.  Now that’s just how simple it is, and you’re going to have to look at nations and how there aligning around Israel because the book of Ephesians says, all nations will reconcile around Israel.

Sid:  What do you see Chuck if I might be bold enough to ask you, for the next five years in the United States of America?

Chuck:  Well, I see a… it’s almost like a tug-a-war.  I see a pulling apart, but this isn’t like what we’ve seen in the past.  I see a state by state by state people trying, leaders trying to determine how will they profit, the issue will become profit ability, but you can only profit, come into a true profit, profit ability through your understanding of covenants.  So you’re going to see state by state by state determining how they’re going align in trade agreements in days ahead and that’s going to affect everyone in their entire state.

Sid:  So, if I’m hearing you right, what you’re saying is it’s not an issue of the United States of America, it’s an issue even of individual states as to whether they’re going to align covenantally with God by being a blessing to Israel or not align covenantally with God.

Chuck:  See Sid that goes back to your initial statement, but if a curse was neutralized from civil war era back to slavery then why are seeing this pulling apart?  Well, we’re now going to hit the real root and what you’re going to find out now in your particular territory is how is the church first of all in that territory aligning with God’s covenant plan with Israel.  And some of you are going to be very surprised that some of the denominations that were evangelical in the last season really weren’t pro Israel and then you’re going to see how the economy and the government is aligning with Israel.  And what it’s going to do is it’s going to start pulling a nation apart again.  So that in the nutshell is what; it’s almost like pause and think about it, we are coming into the greatest tug-a-war our nation has known since probably the civil war.  And this time it’s over a nation called Israel, but it’s really about the God of Israel.

Sid:  And in the midst of this tugging as you put it, is it possible for individual Christians to be blessed, in the midst of this chaos?

Chuck:  Listen, I am telling you the favor of God’s going to come down on God’s people, the favor of God’s going to rest on us, the favor of God.  We’ll have favor with the world; Jesus grew in stature with God and man for a season.  We are coming into a place of new types of favor, but in the midst of it and we’re going to come into a new supernatural awareness.  That’s another reason I wrote this book, “A Time to Defeat the Devil,” we are unaware of the supernatural activity ahead in the next five years.  So to specifically answer your question, the next five years are, we enter into a supernatural dimension where evil expression will seen and heard as well as a super abundant grace will be displayed in the earth, a miracle working grace.

Sid:  But, you know what, it’s time for believer’s to break off the shackles of their vexation, of their curses, and that’s what you teach in this book and move into the power of Passover.  I mean there are amazing things you talk about the power of the Passover Blood.

Chuck:  Well, see the thing about it is we have to understand His blood is supernatural, and the way we express it; and now here’s the thing, now God gave me this book Sid.  He showed me righteous Lot’s spirit got vexed by being in a Sodom and Gomorrah.  And remember Abraham went to war and he went into intercession, but he couldn’t change the atmosphere of Sodom and Gomorrah.  And so in the midst of it what I saw was as times change, our spirit man can become vexed again, it doesn’t mean we’re not a righteous people; it doesn’t mean that God doesn’t have a way of escape for us.  What it means is we can become vexed so that our surroundings are controlling us.  So in this book I talk about how to get your spirit free, very few books ever talk about how to get your spirit free; they talk about how to restore your soul but not renew your spirit.  This book is about spirit renewal because we are coming into a season of the spirit realm; both dark and the Holy Spirit manifesting in God’s people again.

Sid:  I believe that and this is why and you know a lot of people don’t understand why I emphasis the supernatural so much, because I don’t see how a man or a woman can fulfill their destiny unless they move in the supernatural of God.  And if they don’t move in the supernatural of God we even know from scriptures they’re going to move in a counterfeit; much easier to move in a counterfeit if you’ve never seen the real thing.

Chuck:  Well, it’s called Sid, we forget the anti-Christ Spirit goal is to rule the pulpit, and I’m going to tell you what, we’ll get into this religious thing, but we’ll never come into the power of being the sons and daughters God’s made us to be.  And He’s saying I want your spirit liberated, I want your spirit vibrant, I want your spirit renewed so that Holy Spirit can manifest in you and you can do the greater works than what I did.

Sid:  What is your desire for people that read your new book “Time to Defeat the Devil?”

Chuck:  To know the Glory of God and why would I say that?  Because I don’t just go to war with the devil, I mean I think we live in a world that is decaying and you can start looking for all the devils and their everywhere.  What I want people to understand is the Glory of God.  I feel like David understood the Glory of God therefore he knew when the Glory of God left or when it ebbed from him.  I want you as you read this book to renew your spirit so that the Glory of God is so vibrant in your spirit where you sense His presence.  Therefore when the enemy enters into your domain you can say, “Be gone in the name of Jesus.”

Sid:  Well, were coming into those times, were coming to such a…as a matter of fact I’ve been feeling the Glory of God just as I said that I found that someone was just healed someone with a pain in their neck has just been healed in Jesus Name.  Someone with a pain in their back has just been healed in Jesus Name, someone with a pain in their arm; pains are gone now in Jesus Name; that’s that Passover blood.  But you need this revelation; there are few prophets that have end time revelation, like Chuck Pierce.