Sid: My guest is Dr. Michael Brown president and founder of Fire School of Ministry Concord, North Carolina right outside of Charlotte. He has a PhD in near eastern languages and literatures from New York University. He has written a number of books proving Jesus is the Messiah. He recently held a debate which we had on our television show It’s Supernatural with a traditional rabbi by the name of Shmuley Boteach. He’s the host of the national TV show “Shalom in the Home” on The Learning Channel. He was named by Talkers Magazine as one the hundred most important radio hosts in America. He is a traditional rabbi and many say he the most famous rabbi in America from a media perspective. The debate was absolutely high adventure. You know Mike if there are two prophecies that I zero in on when I talk, whether it’s a secular Jew, or a religious Jew; it would be one that you were referring to by the prophet Daniel on yesterday’s broadcast that the anointed, or the Messiah, would come and die before the temple is destroyed, the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. So if it wasn’t Jesus who do you say it is? Of course there’s a whole group of Chasidic Jews in New York that many of them think it’s Rabbi Schneerson. Of course he died a number of years ago and never came back to life. Then the other one I zero in on is Isaiah the 53rd chapter, this was written what 800 years before Jesus came to earth?
Michael: Yeah, roughly closer to 700.
Sid: Talk a bit about Isaiah 53. How important of a prophesy is this?
Michael: Well to me it is the most powerful and central prophesy Sid. If I was talking to a Jewish person that was not schooled in opposing what I believe I would immediately draw their attention to that passage. That would be the one place that I would go. There’s so much resistance against seeing Yeshua there that sometimes I don’t start there, which is why I answered the question yesterday about emphasizing the Messiah came before the second temple was destroyed. Let me tell you why this is such a key passage, the actual passage begins in chapter 52 verse 13 then goes down to 53 verse 12, speaking of the servant of the Lord. First it talks about how highly exalted He’s going to be in an ancient Jewish tradition that applies it to the Messiah says He’s going to be more exalted than Abraham and Moses, and even the ministering angels, but then it says He’s going to suffer terrible disfigurement. It says that His face is going to be barely recognizable as human. So this same on that’s going to be highly exalted, then the next verse says the kings will shut their mouths at him is actually going to suffer terribly. You say who does that apply to? As the chapter goes on it speaks of Him growing up in obscurity. Then coming to a point in life, and this ultimately speaking of His rejection on the cross where He’s despised, rejected of men, and want to hide our face we don’t even want to look at Him, just treat Him like a leper. Think, He’s suffering for His sins, He’s guilty, and it says we didn’t realize He was actually suffering for our sins and carrying our pains and all of us went astray like sheep, yet the Lord laid on Him the guilt of all of us. Then it speaks of how He goes like a lamb to the slaughter; it speaks of even His being buried with the rich and suffering with the wicked. I mean the account is just extraordinary, then being highly exalted by God because He made His own soul as a guilt offering. You read it and you think “This is unbelievable!” I remember many years ago at a real time of seeking God earnestly, having met with rabbis and spent times with religious Jews. I remember I got on my face I said “God I don’t care where the truth leads me; if it’s traditional Judaism I be a traditional Jew; if it’s following Jesus I’ll follow Jesus I don’t care what the consequences are, I don’t care what people think, I’ve only got to do what’s right in Your sight, what pleases You.” I remember not intentionally opening up the Bible to that passage and reading it and being so stunned with the reality, this was laid out in advance it could only be Him. The traditional Jewish view that says “This doesn’t speak of an individual, it speaks of the nation of Israel,” can’t possibly work. The servant of the Lord in Isaiah after about the 48th chapter is no longer speaking of a nation, but of an individual. It even says about that individual in the 49th chapter that part of His purpose will be to restore Israel. So even He’s called Israel His purpose is to restore Israel, He’s an individual within the nation. The 50th chapter speaks of Him suffering as an individual and here this picture… I can’t speak of the nation because if the nation was righteous God would bless and exalt according to the blessings and curses of Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. It can only be speaking of a righteous individual. When you read it you and you say “Who else is that?” It can’t speak of Israel as a people because Israel’s suffering didn’t bring healing to the nations it brought judgment to the nations. When the nations sinned against Israel, and Israel suffered as they were sinned against by the other nations, God then brought judgment on those nations. Healing and redemption, and wholeness come through what Yeshua did carrying our sickness and pains, dying on the cross for our sins. It even speaks of Him prolonging life, how do you die and you prolong life? That’s what’s called resurrection, and I believe Sid that more Jewish people have come to the Lord, come to believe in Jesus just by reading that passage. In fact let me tell you this, not only Jews coming to the Lord reading that passage more than any other passage. I go India and minister there every year, I met a Hindu doctor who’s a wealthy man, high cast, and went on a spiritual search. I just met him this past August. He went on a spiritual search and was looking for truth and started reading the Bible also. He told me his testimony personally, and when he read Isaiah 53 he said “This must be Jesus” and he got saved. He has become a fearless gospel witness despite all kinds of opposition in India reading that passage.
Sid: Michael you know I tell the story that my Orthodox Jewish father when I read the 53rd chapter of Isaiah he accused me of reading from a Christian Bible because he said “You’re speaking about Jesus” and I showed him it was the Bible that our Orthodox rabbi had given me and inscribed to me. In other words, the last thing in the world my Orthodox Jewish father would have wanted was to believe that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. He said to me “You are describing Jesus” and I had to show him I was using a traditional Jewish Bible that came right out of the Orthodox synagogue, it was so obvious. Now I’ve heard the arguments that traditional Jewish people have as to why this isn’t speaking about Jesus. It’s almost, not almost it is an insult to anyone’s intelligence if they want to think for themselves.
Michael: You know here’s the thing I encourage people to study and think for themselves. I was in Phoenix in 95 debating a well-known Orthodox Jewish scholar and rabbi. There was an old Jewish couple that wanted to talk to me about the Lord they had a daughter that was a believer they were visiting there in Arizona, and they wanted to talk to me. I said “Listen here’s what I want you to do. I want you to hear me out, but please come to the debate and hear both sides then make up your minds.” Now ultimately we have to humble ourselves before God because there are many intelligent people read what we read and they don’t see it the way we see it. Ultimately we have humble ourselves before God and say “God what do I know I’m just flesh and blood, but my perspective is limited You’re the One who knows everything, You wrote this, You spoke it open my eyes to the truth.” If we’re willing to do that the consequences may be high, I’ve told religious Jews “Do you realize what it’s gonna cost you when you come to understand that Jesus is the Messiah? Do you understand the opposition you’re going to experience, and how you’ll be cut-off from so much of your background?” Listen it’s just like Peter said “Where else can we go? You have the words of eternal life.” No other choice, no other way, no other option, and for anyone doubting God is able to speak today. If you just get on your knees alone and read the passages we’re talking about, and say “God show me the truth. I don’t want to listen to what Sid Roth or Mike Brown…”
Sid: By the way, what happened to that Jewish couple?
Michael: Well Sid as far as I know that very same week they both put their trust in the Lord, and asked Yeshua into their lives for salvation. I repeat it was only after I encouraged them “Don’t just stop right now and let me talk you into anything. Hear both sides.” I was that confident even though I was debating a great scholar, I was confident the truth was on our side.
Sid: By the way, my Jewish father he came to the Lord before he died also. Okay, Mike why do you do debates with Orthodox rabbis?
Michael: I do debates with Orthodox rabbis because I want the truth to be seen, and I want the truth to be known. I still remember as a new Jewish believer being hit with arguments that I had no answers for. I went to Christian books, but they didn’t have sensitivity to the Jewish objections. I went to books that were written by the Jewish believers, and sadly a lot of them were kind of lightweight. There was not a lot of depth to the material, the sources were not handled well. The first and foremost reason that I began doing these debates was to strengthen my fellow Jewish believers in the faith to encourage them. We not only have a leg to stand on we have two legs to stand on, we the word of God, we have God Himself to stand on, we have absolute secure foundations an immoveable rock. So be encouraged be strengthened even if you had answers when you’ve been hit with objections. Here are the answers, we can be bold we can be public, then the next reason is “Let my Jewish people hear and know we have rational and clear arguments.” We’re not just going around in some emotional frenzy jumping up and down telling you what we believe. We can lay this out scripturally, we can this lay out rationally, if you want to believe we can give you ample reason to believe, and…
Sid: High adventure Mike that is what I call this debate.
SID: This is so amazing. Three of the generals that had been at the Azusa Street Revival, they were part of the revival that was spreading throughout the United States, that just didn’t even know each other were prophesying this, all prophesied the same thing about a great revival that was coming. What was the prophecy?
TOMMY: That in about a hundred years, there would be a revival like Azusa Street, only greater, that will return and greater miracles, and it wouldn’t be in one place with one person. It would be all over the world, Sid. Record people, record church members, even children, older people, even people in nursing homes would start having healing ministries there, and it would last until the Second Coming of the Lord.
SID: How far off is that revival?
TOMMY: I believe it’s starting now. I’ve seen it.
SID: I do, too.
TOMMY: I’ve seen some miracles. Shawnee, Oklahoma, you should have seen some miracles I saw.
SID: Tell me one.
TOMMY: Okay, one. A young man, 17 years old, it looked like a mass had been carved in his back. He came up. This young minister, when he heard my stories, people started getting healed. The young man didn’t, he didn’t touch the young man. But the young man, he fell out the spirit. He didn’t go forward. He fell sideways. When he got up, his back was perfectly straight.
SID: But you know, that is a miracle. But what I want you to hear is, this is almost too hard to believe. Tell me about the person whose face supernaturally became normal, no plastic surgery, supernaturally.
TOMMY: You mean like the elephant man.
TOMMY: This man, his chin dropped down to about here. How he ate, I don’t know. And even those people at Azusa told me, they didn’t know. But they started praying for him and then you could hear bones popping and his chin started coming back up. And in just about a few minutes, he was normal again. It was really kind of attractive.
SID: Well speaking of attractive, even a movie star that had a horrible accident—
SID: Robert Montgomery. Tell he what happened to him as a child? Most people don’t know this.
TOMMY: He had, had fallen and his head had hit on concrete and it had busted his head. They said you could see the skull and you can even see some brain matter coming out. Well Mama didn’t run him to the hospital. She ran down to Azusa Street and took him in there, and they started praying for the kid. And things starting coming back in, and it went together. When he grew up, he was one of Hollywood’s golden boys, Robert Montgomery.
SID: And listen to this. Many of these saints had like specialties, just like in the natural. A medical doctor might be a specialist for a heart, a specialist for skin. Well those that have gifts of the Spirit have different specialties.
TOMMY: That’s true.
SID: Tell me about the woman that had a specialty for teeth.
TOMMY: That’s Lucille. Now Lucille was only four-foot-10. But she would tell me, she says, “Tommy, I even play games with it.” She says she would get people with no teeth. She wouldn’t pray for all the teeth to come back in. She prayed for one at a time. She wanted to put her finger down on the tooth, push down, pray for God to grow it back and have the tooth with her finger on it. And she’d go around the mouth, bottom and top, take some time, but she had fun doing it.
SID: There were young people that would be just playing in the Glory. Explain that.
TOMMY: That was Ralph Riggs and C.W. Ward. Not C.M. Ward, C.W.
TOMMY: That, when that Glory would get thick, Ralph told me it’s about like you couldn’t see more than 10 foot in front of you. He said him and Ralph would play hide and go seek until their parents, their mothers found out, caught them and then put a stop to it.
SID: Tell me about Goldie who had a specialty for growths.
TOMMY: Goldie, that’s the one that led me to the Lord in Venice and bought me to Pisgah. She even would take a little dust pan and put it in a towel and throw it away. People had growths growing out all over, she just loved praying for them. She’d stand there and watch them just falling off, and some, you’d hear the little clicks as they hit the ground. And she didn’t want them laying around a rotting, and getting bad. She’d clean them up and put them in the towel, and then throw them in the trash.
SID: How about the woman who had her ear off?
TOMMY: She had caught her husband with another woman, and the other woman and the wife got into a fight, and the other woman bit the wife’s ear off. She had come to Azusa Street. Sister Carly saw her come in with a bloody bandage over her ear. She said, you can see she was in tremendous pain. So she went up to her to minister to her, and she told her what had happened. She said she pulled it back. She said, “Tommy, it looked like a raw piece of meat. There was nothing there. A raw piece of meat.” She started praying for her. And the woman said, “Oh, I feel tingling. The pain’s all gone. The pain’s gone.” She says, she looked back and right before her eyes there was created miracle. She said, an ear, a brand new ear.
SID: Now for those that don’t know, Pisgah was the place, like a retirement place where all the elderly saints were, where Tommy heard these stories and received this amazing impartation from all of these people that had these miracle ministries. I’m going to ask him to pray for you when we come back.
Sid: Open your this is Rosh Hashanah we are coming to Yom Kippur, the Day of Judgment. Rosh Hashanah is the warning, and I have a Messianic Jewish rabbi by the name of Jonathan Cahn who I’ve known many years. He’s rabbi of Beth Israel Congregation in Garfield, New Jersey. Jonathan I heard a message you gave called the “Harbinger” or the “Warnings.” It had to do with 911, and it had to do with the ancient historic pattern of God’s warnings before judgment with Israel. I want you to explain this to our Mishpochah.
Jonathan: We’re gonna talk about the future of America, and the very specific signs that the Lord gives to a nation when He is calling it back to Him; when it’s at critical juncture to come back, or to be saved, to have a revival, or for judgment. This is something that goes back to the days of ancient Israel. The pattern is this, ancient Israel you know in the northern part of it went completely into apostasy. God sent prophets to them and warned them and called them but they continued to depart from them. They offered up their children in sacrifice, they turned the gods of Baal, Ashtoreth, and all the rest. Finally the Lord allowed the beginning of judgment to come; even in this He was merciful and that is He allowed first an initial attack, an initial incursion into the nation. He allowed Assyria to come in to cause a devastation but to contain it. It was a limited scale devastation, then it was to shake up a nation. That was then followed up by a grace period. Would they repent, would they take this as a sign to turn back to God, or would they continue to depart from God? Now if they turn back there’d be revival God would save and bless them, but if they kept going and ignored the signs given them then there would be a worse disaster. There would be catastrophe ultimately complete devastation. What happened in the case of northern Israel is they said “No we are not repenting, in fact we are even go farther, we’re gonna be stronger, we’re gonna rebuild, and we’re gonna show that we cannot be humbled.” So they did this and eventually soon not long after came a giant devastation. The northern kingdom was completely destroyed they were taken into captivity it became the 10 lost tribes. It was because they did not recognize the signs that were given and the voice that was given by God. Now the key verse in this is Isaiah 9, which is we know it as the Christmas verse the birth of Messiah, but it also says this in verse 8 very key “The Lord sends a message against Jacob it falls upon Israel. All the people know it Ephraim and the inhabitants of Samaria who say in the pride and in arrogance of heart: “The bricks have fallen down, But we will rebuild with cut stones;
The sycamore have been cut down, But we will replace them with cedars.” Just keep in mind that scripture. What they’re saying is “No matter what God does, no matter what happens to us we’re going to rebuild we are going to be stronger.” So this is the beginning of key prophetic signs, which I’m gonna link to America in a moment. Now the key signs; there’s about 8 signs here:
- The bricks have fallen – fallen bricks
- We will rebuild
- We’re gonna rebuild stronger and greater
- We’re gonna replace those fallen bricks with something strong and it’s gonna be quarried stone – we’re gonna rebuild with quarried stone
Now let’s hold it right there. Now, 911, September 11th, came the devastation the World Trade Center, New York, and Washington. It was a prophetic sign it was filled with that. It was the pattern, the pattern of judgment is first God is pleading with a nation, God has pleaded with America to turn back to come back. Then finally after many many pleadings He allows the hedge of the nation to breached, He allows an initial attack. He allows the enemy to come in cause devastation to shake up a nation, but to do it on a limited scale, it is a warning. Then comes the period of grace, or the period of the choice, is the nation gonna turn back to God or not. After 911 there was an awful lot of talk about God.
Sid: It was what I call the 30 day wonder the churches were packed for 30 days, then after 30 days it was if it never happened.
Jonathan: Exactly Sid. Now it’s 2 things: It was like a judgment, on the other hand it gives a sense a shadow of what the revival could be. During those 30 days, and I agree with you was about 30 days, you could talk to anybody about the Lord everybody just about everybody was open. They were coming they were asking, people were receiving Bibles. It’s a shadow of a revival that could be. The interesting thing is that it’s not a question of judgment or revival it may be both, it may be, and that’s what I believe it’s gonna be. There will be judgment and in that judgment will be revival. Let me go with that. You have those 4 signs, now what happened after September 11th the first thing is the bricks have fallen. Well I’m here around ground zero, and it was covered with fallen bricks, okay. Secondly there was vow to rebuild “We will rebuild” they started talking “We will rebuild.” The third thing is “We’re going to rebuild stronger and higher.” So they started talking about “We’re going to build a freedom tower, it’s going to go higher than the World Trade Center.” Even Donald Trump got into a whole controversy recently saying “It’s going to be higher, and we’re gonna do this whole big thing.” The final key of that first part of it is that it says “The bricks have fallen, but we will rebuild with quarried stone.” What happened was, and this was only a year ago this the July 4th before last. Leaders gathered from you know the Governor of New York, the mayor they all gathered to Ground Zero to begin this rebuilding. Now according to the pattern of Israel the rebuilding began with quarried stone. What happened was over Ground Zero they had an object was lowered from the sky it was a giant quarried stone. The stone was in Hebrew, there’s a word “gazeet” it means taken particularly; cutout of a mountain rock. The stone was cutout of the mountain rocks of New York; they called it the Freedom Stone they made a big deal; they praised it as the magnificent stone and “With this stone we’re gonna rebuild higher and stronger, this is going to mark the rebuilding of America.” So without realizing it they were following the exact pattern of the beginning of it. Every sign here is going to be fulfilled with precision, but they followed the beginning that they said “This is going to rebuild Ground Zero, this is going to rebuild New York, and it’s going to rebuild America, all on that.” Another thing, when you read the ancient commentaries on this verse, this critical moment in Israel’s history, they all speak about… they use the word “Spirit of defiance.” Instead of being humbled by what happened they’re saying “We’re gonna be stronger in what we do, and we’re not gonna take any sign, we’re gonna be more defiant.” Well on that day when they pronounced their… you know the leaders were praising this whole thing. One of them said, a very famous leader said “We are the heirs of the spirit of defiance.” Used the exact words in all the commentaries about what they did.
Jonathan: This is the first part of the sign, the first harbingers, and that is that the nation instead of being humbled to revival shakes its fist at God. If you look at just what it said after 30 days if America has not moved closer to God we move farther. America as a whole… now there’s revival happening around the world and in the midst, but in that period since 911 we… the Supreme Court struck down all the sodomy laws, another court case sought to remove God from the Pledge of Allegiance, the Ten Commandments was struck down. We have not been moving closer we said “God bless America, God bless America” that’s not the message. The message is: “America you better bless God.”
Sid: Jonathan what is your spin on hurricane Katrina why did that happen?
Jonathan: Well it’s interesting you know it happened around the same time, summer time, as 911. It happened actually during the Hebrew month of Elul which is the month that is given for warning and getting ready to meet God, where the trumpet is sounded every day and the nation is called to repentance. That’s when 911 happened and that’s when this happened. I believe God is calling America and if we don’t listen to the lesser judgments He will call us with greater judgments.
Sid: Do you know what the word Katrina means? Purity
Sid: If that isn’t prophetic I don’t know what is.
Jonathan: On New Orleans of all places. You know we have to weep with those who weep, and we have to pray for the survivors, but we also have to be aware of the signs of the times. New Orleans is certainly a center of great defiance to God and this country.
Sid: How much more mercy can God have?
Jonathan: Yeah, yeah. Well He’s long suffering. That’s why He waits and we say “Lord why?” At the same time we don’t want judgment, but the point is that sometimes the only way to save us is through judgment. Most of us don’t come to the Lord because you know we had good times, most of us came to the Lord because we got shaken up. So it’s really God’s mercy on America to allow these things to call us back to Him.
Sid: If we’re one new man and we have the Messiah of Israel living inside of us and if God’s word says that the same Messiah that died for all of our sins died for all of our diseases then anyone that has intimacy with God should be walking in Divine health. Well that’s the theory and there is a difference between what God says and how it plays out in many people’s lives. And I must believe that the problem is not on God’s side; the problem is on our side. He even says in His word “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.” Now I have Pastor Henry Wright on the telephone from Pleasant Valley Church in Thomaston, Georgia. Henry you were just like what I described the way many people are today; you’re a pastor, you have seen in your own family you mother rather than dying had a miraculous cure of cancer. But you’re a pastor now you’re praying for people and most people aren’t being healed. What did you do about it?
Henry: Well I asked God why? I think it’s important that if you don’t have answers to pray. And I think God hears, and so I asked God way back years ago early 80′s when I was beginning to have no success like I needed to in prayer. Why aren’t these people being healed? In the first part of the answer to my prayer these words began to form inside my thinking and my mind and God spoke to me and said “Henry” He said “Apart from few exceptions in the past several months as you’ve been ministering I haven’t sent’ the first person to you the devil has” And I said I said “Are you the devil talking to me; are you telling me that our enemy will send somebody to me for payer;” that’s as abstract as I can imagine. And God spoke to me in my heart and said “First of all I’m not the devil speaking to you but He said they may even call themselves Christians they may carry a Bible. They may go to church but I’m not their Lord and I said “What do you mean You’re not their Lord.” He said “They know what I said in My word but they don’t practice it” and He said when these people come for prayer the enemy has a legal right to their life even as Christian’s and believers he has a legal right to their life and the enemy knows it. I said “If you’re God and You’re really God talking to me you’re going to have to show this to me in the Bible that the devil can hold people captive at his will and he has a right to. Well it didn’t take me long I found it in 2nd Timothy chapter 2 verse 24, 25 and 26 says “A servant of the Lord must not strive, must be gentile unto all men, patient and able to teach in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves that God per adventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; that they may recover themselves from the snare of the devil having been taken captive by the devil at the devil’s will.” I think the NIV says “To do the devil’s will.” And right there in three verses Sid I found a missing link that there’s things in people’s lives that are not of God and they need to be taught. They need to be discipled, they need to be shown that the source of their thoughts and how they speak and how they act and react with God themselves and others. And I found these are things that they need to see and if their thinking and speaking and acting away that is different than how God would have us do here on the planet they need to do something. They need to repent to God, tell Him that they’re sorry and He is able to forgive them. And in this moment because I now understand the devises of the enemy they’re able to turn away from that and turn towards God and they met the conditions of the covenant and God is right there to heal them.
Sid: Now how in the world though did you identify the exact spiritual roots for so many diseases, and we recognize that it’s not 100% but as you were saying yesterday in many cases it’s over 80%. How did you pin disease in a particular condition? For instance if I was to throw out to you Leukemia “What are the roots?”
Henry: Well, leukemia there is probably about 20 different kinds of leukemia’s; the primary leukemia that we deal with which is a proliferation of white corpuscles in the marrow is a disease coming out of lack of being loved by a father. And there is a type of…
Sid: Wait a second alright you have found this; you have identified this but how in the world did you know this?
Henry: Well, let’s see we’ve got about 23 years of thousands of case histories and setting down and doing family trees and case histories of people’s spirituality and how they think. We are also able to go into the medical community Sid, and I’ll tell you something that not many people know is that even at the research level in allopathic medicine alone they know that behind much disease is a way of thinking. Stinking thinking or things like fear and stress and bitterness; I mean even in Time magazine a few months ago it made the connection between fear, anxiety and stress and infertility. Then unforgiveness and health, and even the world is figuring out there’s a connection between health and forgiveness. But we’ve learned through the study of science, the study of psychology case histories and currently in “Be in Health Global,” which is our research arm of “Be in Health,” we are currently researching over 700 major diseases. We intend with God’s help of defeating every single one of them in our generation.
Sid: Henry I have tell you something that bothers me and I’d like to see your spin on this. I personally take vitamins; I personally on Messianic Vision have interviewed doctors that have talked on nutrition and vitamins. But here is what really bothers me I see so much of this on Christian television it’s almost as if we’re falling back on the vitamins rather than relying on God healing us and it’s bothering me.
Henry: Well, it’s bother me too Sid because the Bible says that “Meat and drink; the Kingdom of God is not meat nor drink. The Kingdom of God is not nutrition but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.” If it was just nutrition we wouldn’t even need God; our God would be our belly.
Sid: But Henry maybe because we’re in such a wonderful sophisticated age and we’re discovering all these things through medical science that we’re relying less and less on God and we’re seeing less and less of God.
Henry: Let’s not go there because there’s many scriptures that indicate that when we start to trust the strong arm of man that God cannot help us. And I’ll be honest with you I deal with thousands of people in the world that even believers have fear of death; fear of dying disease, and we’ve become just like the world. We forget that we’re eternal; we forget… I think we forget that there’s a kingdom of God available to us that we absolutely refuse to practice godly principals. As far as nutrition is concerned there’s in my office and I have a chart of Genome chart of chromosomes and genetically inherited disease there’s over 600 genetically inherited diseases that are involved. I promise you that nutrition does not change genetic code defect; there’s probably a thousand pages of information on psychiatric and psychological disease. And nutrition does not change psychiatric disease. So I don’t know what’s left there isn’t a whole lot left. Now there is and it is important Sid that we eat balanced meals; it is important that we get plenty of rest and drink fluids and eat balanced nutrition. We need building blocks in metabolism for cell repair and maintenance that most people are not eating out of that mentality; they’re eating out of fear. And if you read Roman’s chapter 14 concerning eating of food it says “What’s so ever is not of faith is sin” and so I wonder why we bless our food and then we’re worrying about it. I wonder maybe our fear and our unbelief negated even the prayer of blessing. Now I’m sure someone will take issue with that statement but it’s a challenging statement on my part.
Sid: Okay I want you to go real quick and tell me I’m going to pull something that is quite common in our society high blood pressure. What is the cause and give me a quick testimony of somebody that was healed?
Henry: Well high blood pressure is very easy disease to get healed because it’s not really a disease; that may come as a surprise to many people but classic hypertension should be classified as a syndrome. Because it is simply the result of an imbalance of the sympathetic nervous system coming out from a person who has a particular spiritual and physiological defect. The lack of being a doer of one scripture; the scripture that we see behind high blood pressure hypertension is very simple in the New Testament. It says “Take no thought for tomorrow, the evil of today is sufficient unto itself take no thought for tomorrow for tomorrow may never come.” And so people who get classic high blood pressure hypertension are people who are filled with worry. They’re worrying about what can go wrong tomorrow, it could be business, it could be finance, it could be health a number of things. As they begin to project into the future the potential of failure or something the hypothalamus, the watchdog over the intekrin system and the sympathetic nervous system causes an imbalance which produces a narrowing of blood vessels and the building up of pressure.
Sid: So very quickly give me one quick testimony of…better than that what does someone do that says “Okay, I’ve got high blood pressure Henry what do I do?”
Henry: (Laughing) First of all you need to recognize that you’re not a doer of the word, you’re worrying about something could go wrong in the future, that’s fear and fear is sin. We might as well just call it sin…it’s not a negative emotion. It’s serving something that’s not of God; fear is not from God. So to get people healed of high blood pressure we do 2nd Timothy chapter 2. We teach them, we disciple them, we bring them to a place to recognize that they have fear and anxiety and worry. We get them to repent for that, we minister to them around those issues and then get them to take their peace back and begin to live their life without fear. We’ve seen thousands of cases of high blood pressure disappear as the people start to become doers of the word and quit worrying about tomorrow.
Sid: Listen, I’ve been to your seminars and I’ve seen some marvelous results in just a couple of days. But the truth is most people aren’t going to be able to afford to or take the time to get to your seminar, what results are people getting from your book “A More Excellent Way?”
Henry: I’ll tell you it’s amazing to me that just as the two cases of cancer I mentioned that these two individuals were healed by God of cancer and nobody even prayed for them. The material in this book “A More Excellent Way” and the pathways that it indicates is so accurate and roots behind the disease is so accurate that when people see this they either admit that they have these spiritual issues in their life or they deny it. But the ones that are saying “Hey man he knows me or that’s certainly my battle.” And they begin to repent to God.
Sid: They’re getting healed..
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Michael Hinson and I’m speaking to him at his home in Gainesville, Florida. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Michael was literally dragged to a Happy Hunter’s healing meeting. At the meeting he hears an audible voice and then Charles Hunter confirms that audible voice, walks right up to him invites him to head up a healing explosion he didn’t even know what a healing explosion was in Jacksonville, Florida. He accepts, he gets the training then he almost became like a spiritual son with the Hunters he lived with them for 3½ years. But 10 years ago over a 3 day period he had been crying out to God “God show me my heart.” God answered it and he got a lot more than he bargained for it was unbearable because you see most people think they have good heart. Compared to who? Compared to God? The heart is the most deceptive of all things; he couldn’t stand it. After he was healed of this self-centeredness and all of the things; the junk that was inside of him his life literally changed; he began seeing people dramatically healed. Tell me a bit about what you began seeing Michael.
Michael: Well, after traveling with Charles and Francis and traveling and studying other healing ministries I realized that God not only healed but he wanted his people healed. And that was something that I wasn’t taught in my church. I was taught that it happened occasionally for certain circumstances and in all sorts of odd situations. I was also taught the ways that you could motivate or get God to move on your behalf. But God wants to heal people; He wants to touch them and make them whole. I watched over and over again as people who couldn’t control their bowels get out of wheelchairs. I watched blind people that lost their sight over a period of years pick up their Bible and read it for the first time in 10 or 15 year. I watched people who could walk, walk; I watched stoke victims literally get all their limb uses back. I watched doctors fall down on their knees because they watched somebody who drugged the doctor to the meeting get dramatically healed and they gave their life to the living God of Israel. I’ve watched it over and over and over again for 25 years to where it became second nature; the supernatural is natural in the things of God. It’s something that we’re not taught as little kids that God healed; if we were taught that when we were older we would just expect it to be a natural reaction. We were taught through whatever the circumstances were just the opposite of many cases and had to actually had to relearn as we became Christians “Wait a second our God is a Healer and He does want me whole and He did come to give me life and life abundantly.”
Sid: Now you tell me that many times when God wants to He almost removes the shield between you and a person and you can see what’s going on in their heart. Give me an example of this.
Michael: Well let me start it this way; in John the first chapter of John verse 32 it says – John the Baptist gave this testimony “I saw the Spirit come down from Heaven as a dove and remain on Him. I wouldn’t had known who He was except the one who sent me told me that the one who I baptized – the Spirit came on and remained on Him He is the Son of God.” And he said “I’ve seen this and testified that Jesus is the Son of God.” Well he testifies, John the Baptist he didn’t know who Jesus was. When Jesus came up to John the Baptist in a couple of other testimonies of this account John says “Wait a second I need to be baptized by You.” I John didn’t know who He was, and he gave this account that he didn’t why did he say “I need to be baptized by you?” And Jesus answered that when he said “John the Baptist came in the Spirit of Elijah and truly Elijah must come.” Well, Elijah was a seer, he was one of the prophets who could see. John the Baptist baptized so many people that the Pharisees and the Sadducee and the wouldn’t see’s came down to see what he was doing because it was affecting so many people. The reason he was helping them was because he could lead them into repentance; it’s what the Bible says he did. And I believe he lead them in repentance because he could see what they needed to repent of. And when Jesus came he didn’t know He was the son of God, but he couldn’t see any sin in this man and at that point said “I need to be baptized by you.” And Jesus’s response was that “No let righteousness be fulfilled.” And then John baptized him and the Spirit came like a dove. John the Baptist was a seer and he could see the things that people needed to repent for.
Sid: Now, is it that most people have buried the sin or not even aware of the sin that they don’t… if they’re believer’s that they haven’t taken care of it; is that what’s going on?
Michael: Well, a lot of times we are taught in different churches all sorts of different things that literally get us to end up denying the sin that’s in our hearts. Or that we’re not taught properly how to… how many people do you know come up in church and confess their sins one to another? It was common in the New Testament Church; they worked, they would go to the elders and confess their sins. I know that there’s confession in different churches, but it’s a whole concept of being free in an atmosphere where you can bury your heart.
Sid: Most of us are not what the world calls “Quote real” we adapt a religious framework and the last thing we want to do is talk about what’s going on in our heart.
Michael: And that’s especially true with women. Women are emotional creatures and God made them that way and they become emotional over their issues and over the things that happened to them and hurt them. And they end up putting this wall up because if they didn’t put the wall up when they went into a room their emotions would give them away and over a period of time they end up getting caught behind this wall; and then all these things that they have yet to deal with are still tied up in their heart. And their trying to get on with their walk with God and love God with all of their heart but they’re carrying all this weight around and it’s showing up in their bodies in all sorts of physical systems. And simply ministering to the root causes a lot of things that came in, the words that were said, the things that were done forgiveness, repentance and healing people are totally free, absolutely totally free.
Sid: Can you give me an example of someone that you had this knowing about and what happened.
Michael: Well, everybody that we’ve met with fibromyalgia that has come to the meeting and I’ve yet to know of anyone that hasn’t come to our meeting with fibromyalgia that hasn’t gotten totally healed. Because when they come up we deal with a lot of the root causes that’s inside the things that have yet to be exposed and when those are removed fibromyalgia in its wholeness is completely gone. People have gotten prayer for arthritis over and over again they would come and it would come back, the symptoms would come back. We would deal with the root cause of whatever that was; lead them through simple prayers of repentance and forgiveness. And I know people think “Well, gosh I’ve forgiven everybody I’m a Christian.” Well, one of the barometers to check for forgiveness is “If you sat down at your dinner table tonight to eat and anybody from your past came and sat down beside you while you were eating it would change the way that you ate your meal.” My question is “Why would it change it, if it changed your comfort zone, why would it change it?”
Sid: And the truth is it should not or there is a problem of a degree of unforgiveness.
Michael: Or anything that associated with that, you know if I walked down the street and I step off the curb and twist my ankle a pain will quite often run from my ankle up to my head, and God made me He said “That pain would happen to let me know that there is a problem with my ankle and it needs attention.” Equally God made us so that in our heart and our spirit or in our belly, when we start feeling that pressure and that pain God’s letting us know there is something wrong there and it needs attention. If we just cover it up or ignore it or try to fake our way through it without dealing with the things He wants us to deal with. And please I am not opposed to faith in any way shape or form, I’m just opposed… faith changes the facts it doesn’t deny the facts. So I want to see people move in a freedom where they can deal with those issues. Paul in his writings quite often directs us… listen if you have this kind of heart repent and then get on with what God called you to do. It’s not something that we have to hold on to, it’s a very simple procedure, it’s just being real before the Lord.
Sid: Okay I’m holding in my hand your new book that you co-authored with Joan Hunter “How to Heal the Whole Man Handbook.” And the thing I love about it is you take… first you do the teaching and then you actually teach how to minister to the sick to someone else or to yourself and you take each disease and you really in point the causes and exactly how you should pray. Tell me about some of the feedback you’re getting in email, I know it’s a brand new book but tell me about some of the feedback.
Michael: Oh the books only been out since the 1st of September but the emails are just pouring in daily I mean it’s more than all of us can handle sometimes at one time from the people that are being healed. We get emails from people who they got the book and took it home and went and looked up whatever the illness was they’re dealing with in their own life, read the prayer in it and commanded… did what the book said to do. They’re emailing us back and telling us all the symptoms are gone. We’re getting people that are going to the doctors and the doctors have said “You’re blood pressure is normal,” or cutting their medicines back or changing their circumstances, the cancers are gone, the pains in the body is leave instantly. People with gum disease healed instantly, people with bad backs healed instantly. Simply by doing the things that are in the book because it is a biblical truth. When you apply these and the principals that are in it people get healed.
Sid: Now why are people after they read it getting multiple copies of this book?
Michael: Well, I don’t know why they’re getting them, but I can only assume that we’ve had people go and buy one book and then come back and buy 12 more and give it to their friends. The only reason I can imagine they’re doing that is because it dramatically affected their life.
Sid: And you know something’s else that is going on in your meetings people are supernaturally having their broken hearts healed. I mean God’s showing them things at your meetings, how does this operate?
Michael: Well, again this is dealing with the root causes that are in people’s lives, there’s a root cause to every situation that we’re in there is nothing that doesn’t happen without a cause. The Bible says “A curse can’t stick with us without a cause.” So being sick is not a blessing, the Bible talks about that and we explain it in the book so that the people have an understanding of where we’re coming from and the simplicity that is in this book. And so people get dramatically healed because we deal with the root causes which are fundamental and the parts that’s so amazing it’s so simple.
Sid: Michael we’re out of time….