Sid: I’ve got a Jewish man on the line and I have a Jewish woman right opposite me and I’m Jewish maybe the whole world’s Jewish who knows. Her name is Janie DuVall she’s producer of Messianic Vision and she has been talking non-stop about a diet called “The Makers Diet.” I said “Janie, there are so many diets out there and you’ve been on all of them. You have, I have you that are listening to me you have” but she’s been on this and she says it’s the first one making a difference. Janie, what you told me is that he got like the best of all of them in this.
Janie: It takes everything because you have the all-vegetable diet and there’s a truth to that but it doesn’t have everything it’s like. And there’s a truth to the Atkin’s as far we need fats but it’s the wrong fats. But he takes everything and it all makes sense. When I read that book I realized why all the people around me were sick. The other day I was in a doctor’s office and saw a 2 ½ year old little girl who was about to get her tonsils out and she’s having all this pain in her ears. And I wanted to… and the mother left and I wanted to run out and say “It’s what the child’s been eating you’re giving her pasteurized milk” which I didn’t realize all the harmful effects until I read his book. People are sick, teenagers are who are in rebellion. Now I understand the way the world is today but a lot of it is from the food that they’re eating.
Sid: Okay, let me introduce you to Dr. Jordan Rubin I’m speaking to him at his office at West Palm Beach, Florida. Jordan on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that you were headed quickly short of a miracle from God to death. You had Crone’s disease; you had one of the worst cases and you were literally starving to death. You went down to I saw your picture before and after and that’s amazing transition that occurred. But your book is called “The Maker’s Diet.” Tell me some of the things you learned from the Bible form the Maker’s Diet.”
Jordan: When I grabbed the Bible and looked at it with really new eyes and realized that God has a plan for us and the Bible is to our bodies what that book that we get in our glove box to our new automobile is. It’s the manufacturers manual; and what I found when I read the Bible was that God made promises to the people of Israel that went something like this. “If you follow my commandments and you listen to what I’m saying and you follow Me, I will put none of the diseases upon you that I have put upon the Egyptians for I am the Lord that heals you.” And what I realized was that people in Egypt 4,000 years ago they had the best medicine; the best culture and the best technology but they did things in opposition to God’s word and they suffered illness. They had all the same problems that we have today. And what I realized in my own life was that I have inherited the promises and curses rather of Egypt rather than the promises of God. I found a way to eat and a way to live and took God’s plan and packaged it in a modern day program applicable program. And you know what I agree with Janie this plan has the best of the best in it. Why, because I took it from the greatest source. And what I like to say is isn’t it time that we got a prescription from the great physician. Instead of the person that we’re going to with a white coat that gives us a pill so that we can easily get rid of what’s ailing us. Rather than us working out our salvation with fear and trembling living a life in obedience and discipline to our Creator. And that’s what “The Makers Diet” is all about it’s not easy but if you follow it the results are well worth any sacrifice.
Sid: Actually I was talking to Janie about that and I was saying to Janie “I cannot be on a diet that has so many things in it.” And her comment to me was “Do it as well as you can and you’ll be way ahead.” What do you think about that doctor?
Jordan: Well, Sid I agree in fact what you shared with me off the air about some of the things you’re eating now I would not say that that’s not on “The Maker’s Diet.” The Maker’s Diet is really about eating what God created for food and eating food that’s healthy for the body; so we’re talking about quality. Now if you’re at a restaurant you have certain…
Sid: You see as I told you as I met you in person I eat most of my meals in restaurants.
Jordan: And a lot of us do but the point is that there are choices and you can always do better if you have the ideal plan in mind. And what my point is that we’re not trying to be perfect; no one can be perfect. I’m not perfect by my diet by any stretch. But what I do is I make it a priority. I understand that what I eat, how I live and how I practice hygiene all the areas of health that are important it doesn’t just affect me it affects others. And Sid we want you on the air proclaiming the good news for a long time; we want you to have long life and abundant life. And the way you do it is by following in obedience to God’s plan for your life. And just as we strive to live a moral and ethical life in accordance with the scriptures. We are not perfect but the model of perfection has been lived out in our Messiah Yeshua. And our goal on earth is to emulate that but we do deviate from that but it doesn’t change perfection and if were not… we get what we strive for. And if you look at “The Maker’s Diet” and say “This is what I want to move towards.” And so many people say “I can’t do it because of this; I don’t have the money; I don’t have the time; I don’t have the discipline.” There’s a lot of people that are looking for an excuse to stay the way that they are. But I’ll tell you right now that you can’t just skate along in life abusing your body, which by the way is referred to as the Temple of God by God’s only Son. You can’t do that your entire life and not pay the consequences.
Sid: One of the things that concerning me a lot is that people because of medical science are living really longer than ever but they’re quality of life. Who would want to be old and live like?
Jordan: I can’t agree with you more on that statement because I had two grandmothers. I still have one but one grandmother despite having cancer in her mid-seventies followed this health plan is still alive at 82. My other grandmother despite our best efforts would not follow a health plan and a healthy lifestyle and she… not only did she died at age 77. but her last 7 years she lived with pain, dementia, Parkinson’s disease not knowing who we were and being in assisted living in a nursing home; just a miserable existence. And in the Bible Moses died at 120 his eyes did not grow dim; Joshua died at 110. God used them weeks before they died instead of getting older and more feeble I believe that they became more wise and added more to society. That’s what I want to see today and that’s what God is doing. You know what it’s not about me it’s not about my story. God is on a mission to change the health of His people one life at a time. All I’m doing is getting onboard with His mission. And boy it’s an exciting one because people eyes are being opened. We are finally desperate enough to make health and our bodies a priority.
Sid: You know as I read your book you have a lot of things in there that I’ve never even thought about. But one of the things that I wanted to bring up is the Bible talks about not having pork products and being Jewish I was raised not having pork products. But then as I got a little older and got on my own and especially the Jewish major meal Chinese Food.
Sid: I went into it but I was always told that that was because in the Bible days there was trichinosis and things like that but today we don’t have that and so there for pork is okay to eat. But that’s not what you say.
Jordan: Well it’s interesting that a few chapters after God handed down the dietary laws through Moses which talks about not eating certain animals they’re unclean either detestable; a few chapters later he talks about a man should not lie with another man as he lies with a woman. He uses the same word detestable and unclean in that chapter that He uses when He talks about eating pork and shellfish and other unclean meat.
Jordan: There is a scientific reason behind it which I’d love to share in the future but more than anything God is the same yesterday, today and forever. These are not kosher laws by the way even though the term kosher means the way that you should go and it is a good terminology this is God’s plan. Everything in the Bible when Science bothers to study it they prove exactly what God said. And when it comes to easting meet clean and unclean I’ll tell you pork is anything but more healthy than it used to be. The pig didn’t change, the pigs anatomy didn’t change and we certainly been redeemed by the blood of Yeshua; we are born again into His family. But that didn’t change our physical body and God did not make a mistake 4000 years ago. In fact the dietary laws even predate Moses when Noah was on the earth he could delineate between clean and unclean when they were bringing animals into the ark. I love talking about this topic and when people hear it I really believe it resonates with their spirit and we’re seeing some big changes.
Sid: Tell me briefly what is “The Maker’s Diet.”
Jordan: “The Maker’s Diet” is a 40 health experience that changes people’s lives by following a plan; not a diet but a plan based on the Bible history and science and goes into every area of our health. Physical health, mental health, emotional health and of course spiritual health. And when you follow this for 40 days you instill habits into your life, changes into your life, and departures from which you are doing into a lifestyle more conduces to health that allows you to build a lifetime of health. And I believe start a new generation; start a legacy to affect your future generation.
Janie: You know I have to say that “The Maker’s Diet” is yummy (Laughing).
Sid: Wait a second now, I’ve got it in front of me and you’re talking about eating raw sauerkraut. Now I don’t mind it with the hotdog but I can’t have the hot dog on The Maker’s Diet.” (Laughing)
Janie: No, I’m really not kidding when I go off of “The Maker’s Diet” and I’m feeling really awful.
Sid: Why do you eat sauerkraut?
Janie: I love sauerkraut.
Sid: Jordan why does she eat your sauerkraut?
Jordan: Sauerkraut is actually cultured vegetables and we’re hearing a lot about enzymes and probiotics. Well, every culture in the world really has some type of a fermented vegetable as a condiment to eat with their meat. That’s why sauerkraut was combined with sausage or a hotdog because sauerkraut especially if it’s raw contains enzymes to help digest protein food.
Sid: Is that very important to help our body digest proteins?
Jordan: You don’t need sauerkraut as part of your daily diet.
Sid: Good. (Laughing)
Jordan: Consuming vegetables in one form or another is beneficial. And there are some food that even that are healing food; they call them super-foods. And so while sauerkraut is not an obligation there are important concepts in “The Maker’s Diet” that go back to your question. You mentioned “Aren’t we different don’t we need different foods.” “The Maker’s Diet” doesn’t tell you what to eat at every moment of the day it gives you the solid principals and foundation in which to build a healthy life.
Sid: Jordan we’re out of time right now.
Sid: The devil has been trying so hard to separate Jews and Christians, but devil it’s too late because there is a move of God’s Spirit that is removing the spiritual scales from the eyes of Jewish people. What Paul describes the glorious church because it is so explosive with the Spirit of God and the glory of God. I mean when you walk into a gather of believers and when people hear me say church they think building. No it doesn’t matter. This is God’s house; no no no God’s house is we’re believers gathered together. God’s house is in the believers not in the building. When these believers come together; when that glorious church is restored. When the Jewish olive tree comes back in that tree is going to get so healthy that people will walk into the gathering of believers whether it’s in your house or it’s in the cathedral it doesn’t matter. The Spirit of God, the glory of God will be just so leased that everyone will be healed; they’ll repent to sins. And then we’ll have what the Bible says and not the best we can do until we have what the Bible says. I want what the Bible says; nothing more, nothing less. Jesus said, “You will do the same works that I’ve done and even greater.” I have a man on the telephone I’m talking to him at his home at Alexandria, Louisiana. His name is Dr. David Remedious; David is a Vascular Surgeon but very different than most surgeons. He’s one that hears God’s voice. He’s one that operates in the gift of visions where he literally will be speaking to someone and have an open vision of how to solve their problem through surgery or perhaps another method. On yesterday’s broadcast David you were talking about one of your patients, Dee Sap and will you continue.
David: That is correct we were in the emergency room and of course we decide; she has a surgery abdomen wound and we have to take her to surgery. Her husband and I; her husband is a minister and myself we just prayed and we just asked God to just intervene and for God to send His angels literally ministering spirits. That’s exactly what I said “Lord send Your angels and ministering spirits into that operating room.” Of course I pray that all the time before (chuckling) but little did I know that was what was about to occur at that point in time. And so I took her into the operating room and when I opened up her abdomen I was very surprised her gallbladder was gangrenous; this tumor in the transverse colon had totally obstructed her bowel, and the sekum was about to explode; so it was a very tenuous situation. So at that point obviously what I would do because we’re dealing with infection. This is just principals of surgery; these are just things that we’ve got to do. This is very serious by the way; so I don’t want to make light of any of this. This is extremely serious this is human life on the balance so to me obviously because of my professional training; because of the oath that I’ve taken and there’s a great sense of sobriety over my, if I even tell this story. But I began to operate and obviously I would just take out the gallbladder and I would take out the colon; I’d take out the right part of the colon the right hemicolectomy obviously ileostomy and a colostomy and obviously as a surgical principal you’re not supposed to put the bowel back together because we had infection in the area.
Sid: Now did you prepare her ahead of time that that’s what you’ll do?
David: There was no way of repairing the bowel because she was totally obstructed. So that’s just the way….
Sid: Did you mention to her that she might need… or you
David: Oh yeah about a colostomy yes.
Sid: That’s a very radical thing it’ll be a total change of her life.
David: Yes, correct and so as I’m doing that it was so clear that the Lord, the Spirit. First of all there was a very… for one of the dramatic times in my career and I’m not in church and all of sudden the presence of God invades the operating suite. So I’m very intensely operating I’m concentrating on what I’m doing. And all of a sudden this wonderful incredible awesome presence just shows up in that operating room. I’m going “This is awesome I recognize the presence of God” and I look around and look at the people and obviously my assistant is handing me the instruments and circling nurse is doing her thing and everything is going normal.
Sid: I have seen you in person when the power of God comes on you and you start shaking. Oi vey if you’re a surgeon that’s shaking. (Laughing)
David: (Laughing) Well, it’s amazing when the anointing comes on me when I’m operating my movements like at a church setting it’s become very very precise. The concentration become extremely intense and so it’s sort of like; I don’t know it’s such preciseness that comes. There’s an incredible tangible anointing and obviously losing control would not be of help in an operating room. So God knows exactly how to direct our movements. So I become very focused so I looked around me and it was so clear to me that the voice that I saw myself putting that colon and putting it back, sewing it back together. And closing the skin; see I was supposed to have left the skin open. And that’s just a normal basic thing that one would do as a surgeon. And so I’m sitting there and I’m just thinking this and why would I be thinking this and why would I be thinking that. I’m supposed to leave an ileostomy and colostomy and so for the second time it was so strong that so strong impression I’m trying to think logically. “Well, that’s not right.” I can’t be doing this and after the second time I just said out loud “I need another opinion.” So I asked a colleague of mine to come in. A very wonderful surgeon came in and he looked. And I said “What would you do so so?” And he said “Well I would be ileostomy and a colostomy and I would leave the skin open.” And I said “Well, that’s what I was planning on doing too.”
Sid: That’s the standard procedure
David: Well of course, of course and by the way I’m not in any way making light of this because this is such serious and somber. You understand this is very very serious and forget about license and forget about a title this is not even about this; this about a human being and their life. And so I want everyone this is not just “Well, I just saw a vision and I just did it.” Oh, no to me I was faced really with a most incredible, awesome sense of responsibility. This is the way I am trained I’m trained to save lives and that’s my passion. But this was one of those moments when both seemed to come in apparent contradiction to each other. What do you do at that point? What do you do? Well, before me was a decision of “Well, if I obey what I’m feeling in my heart obviously I’m putting this person’s life in jeopardy and that’s you know no physician out there wants to do that. And I’m not about to and I wouldn’t do that either because that’s very very serious and so.
Sid: And so if there were 100 vascular surgeons how many would approach this the way you approached it?
David: What I ended up doing no I don’t think none of them.
Sid: Okay, go ahead.
David: And that’s why literally God was asking me taking me out of my totally out of comfort zone and asking me to trust Him totally with what He was doing. And obviously I was thinking; this is not an easy decision. I had a group of people around me and after that surgeon walked out of the room the third time He said just go ahead and do it. So I said “Lord I do trust You and I do know Your voice.” And He did not come out for me to hear the voice of the Lord at that point but He had begun when I was a youngster in New York City. So I learned to trust Him and you know I want the people listening to me to understand that this is not; this is very serious and I did it and…
Sid: But wait a second David with what is going to happen of planet earth we need to hear His voice to save our lives based on. Look when that tsunami hit if you could have heard God you would have run up to a high mountain with enough time.
David: Right that is correct and that same voice that protected my life numerous times when I was younger now was there to save someone else’s life. But at the same time everything that I had worked for all these years with so much sacrifice was also being put on the line. So does that make sense; it was sort of like it was a very very… I was stepping back and I said “Okay, I know what He’s done I’m going to obey and I’m going to trust Him.”
Sid: I have to ask you a quick question this was a couple that was suing you over land; did it occur to you if you missed it the land suit would be nothing compared to what would have happened? Oh, absolutely and that’s what made it even more dramatic to me because I went “Lord, are you serious?” There was all these thoughts going through my mind but knew where my heart and I did it I closed. I put the bowel together, I closed the skin.
Sid: David, hold that thought we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: You know what I was just thinking my guest is Jose Santana from the Rochester, New York area. And he’s a New Covenant prophet and he has extraordinary gifts in the prophetic realm. One of the things he explained is many times when he prophesies over someone he can pick up their thoughts and if they’re saying “I don’t believe that’s true or I’m not capable of that” he’ll just tell them that. Do you realize that if I was involved in secret sin Jose you are the last man I would have opposite me on the microphone.
Sid: So I was thinking, I bet a lot of people are afraid of you especially in ministry. You realize this Mishpochah that the gifts that God has given him if there was some really bad thing going on in my life I believe that God would show it to you Jose.
Jose: Wow! But I believe that people have lost the fear of God. As I travel I see 90% of the pastors being overwhelmed with the counseling in the church. As I counsel people; as I tell them you fast for 3 days, I’ll fast for 3 days then I’ll give you the word of the Lord. So they do it and a lot of times it is that this particular case the lady was telling the husband that I’m not competitive to you anymore because I’m going to college. And the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said “She’s lying, she’s having a sexual relationship with a kid in college; she’s going to leave her husband in 6 week and she’s going to leave the church.” That took only a minute. And it all came to pass.
Sid: And when you shared that what happened?
Jose: Well, the pastor almost had a heart attack because he was wasting 6 months of his time counseling but it was in the flesh no results.
Sid: Jose, you had in addition to all of these things that provoke me to jealousy; you went to Heaven.
Jose: Yes Sir.
Sid: Tell me about that.
Jose: Oh, my Lord as I said I was in a life of drugs and street addictions and so forth. When I came to the Lord I struggled with the love of Jesus Christ. And 3 years later of that He took me up to Heaven and showed me not only the street of Heaven and the angels but He sat me on His lap as a daddy would set his son. And He put His hand around me and He told me He loved me so much. But my mind couldn’t comprehend the width, the length, the height of His love.
Sid: You still were thinking “How could He love you because of all the sin that you had been involved in but you had repented but it still was harassing you.
Jose: Yes, yes. And when He took me to Heaven I go “Oh Lord you truly love me that you would do that for me.” Was no other encounter, I saw the angels it was a large room the street of gold. And they knew that I was just passing through but they took care of me so nice and I never forget that experience. Then I have seen the Lord Jesus in a local body with a basket full of gifts giving them to His people but none of them realize that the Messiah was in the house.
Sid: So did they not take the gifts?
Sid: You mean you saw Him trying to hand gifts to people; why wouldn’t they take it anyone would take a gift?
Jose: Because He will not violate His word. The Bible says He exalt His word above His Name. James says “We do not have because we do not ask.” We must ask for gifts and things and then He will release them unto us.
Sid: And you were asking for the gift of prophesy.
Jose: For over 3 years.
Sid: Did you ever think that you would get such an outstanding gift as this Jose? I’m just curious.
Jose: Not even in my wildest dream, not even in my wildest dream that He would give me a chance to be used by Him.
Sid: And that’s by the way; I can see why He chose you; because I have to be candid with you Jose I hate to interview some household names in Christianity. Do you know why? Because there have been layer and layer of hurts in their life and protection and miss understandings and pride. I see the problem that God has, he takes the humble vessel. He gives his best gifts to them; He gives His love to them and then over time not instantly little by little. The gifts and calling of God is without repentance, He does not take it away, but the vessel is not that same broken vessel that He gave the gifts to.
Jose: My God talking about that one day I was just washing my mouth out and He took me by His Spirit He took me to Puerto Rico; He took me to Washington DC.
Sid: That’s sort of like the Bible talks about being translated.
Jose: Like Elijah.
Sid: Elijah and…
Sid: Philip. So tell me exactly what happened.
Jose: Something that is beyond my control He would take me to places to show me what has happening in the region or He will take me to other places to show me what they are planning.
Sid: Now are you taken in the Spirit or…
Jose: In the Spirit.
Sid: Have you ever been taken in the flesh to another area?
Jose: No, but it’s so real I could see what their eating; I could see the room; I could see the meeting; I could see the hand writing in the legal pad. And I could tell you; I could describe you the face of everybody in the room and what they said in the room but it’s all by the spirit my body is still in Rochester, New York.
Sid: Hmm, well what do you do with this information?
Jose: Okay, I take all that information and I go back to the Lord and I say “What do you want me to do with this you know prayer, intercessor, you know what is it? And usually He gives me instruction right after I ask Him what to do with it. But it’s not scary it’s just a peace of God and it’s nothing I asked the Lord to take me there He does that when He want to.
Sid: Jose, has God given you any insight into what is going to happen in this country or other countries. We’re living in such a crazy world right now; I mean you look at Iran. They got atomic weapons now; you look at the former Soviet Union; you look at Russia. Russia is giving these rogue nations atomic weapon information. You look at China kind of a sleeping giant ready to do something. You look at North Korea, I mean it used to be in this country it was outrageous that we would ever think the possibility we could have an invasion on our shores and then we had 9/11. What insight has God given you?
Jose: I always look at things at Israel; I look at things at Europe the European market. It’s seems like those two places there are key players. And then I look at the economy in the United States. The Bible says “That no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast.” So I said “Lord if America is so strong in the dollar how come they are going to yield to another nation.” And so that means that we as an American must suffer some shipwreck with the economy. And then the European company will come and say “We’re going to bail you out and you’re going to come under our covering and then from there I believe that the engagement between them and Israel will take place and the rest you find it in the Bible. But I believe that those are key things to look out.
Sid: Well, how quickly could major changes happen in the world? In your opinion; I mean are you talking down 100 years from now or are you saying this is imminent?
Jose: I see changes coming between 5 and 8 years we will look back and your hair will stand.
Sid: It’s interesting, I feel like God has said “I want you to put together a 5 year plan for expansion. I want you to get your message out especially He tells me He wants me to get into Europe, the Middle East, and as I mentioned to you and our Mishpochah this week we started on a new book to reach Muslims. See I have found this Roman’s 1:16 has such insight into spiritual laws that most people don’t understand. Paul says “I’m not ashamed of the gospel because the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes to the Jew first.” Now that was God’s historical order He started with the Jew.
Sid: However every time something major happens as you just brought up look at Israel. I involved the Jew. Well, I have found that is God’s law for salvation. When you go to the Jew first it opens up a supernatural door for evangelism for all people. But then I just recently got a new revelation; I feel like jumping up and down. The word salvation means “forgiveness of sin, Jesus died for your sins it’s all caught up in there but it means more. It means deliverance, it means healing.” And here’s where I’ve put my faith, as I move out to the Jew first which I do, we have big evangelistic meetings planned in German and Israel this year. And God’s given me a new strategy to reach Jewish people in Israel. I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen. But I am putting my faith out there that I will be walking in greater miracles because God said “When you go to the Jew first it is salvation, it is miracles.” And it will be greater miracles for all people; now without faith, you can’t please God but without knowledge you can’t even have faith. So I have knowledge from revelation from the Word of God. Now faith in that knowledge and the minute my foot touches the ground that word of God is going to be activated.
Sid: You know what Mishpochah there is someone who either the little finger or the next to the little finger. Maybe it’s just arthritis or there’s something in the joint or pain but if you’ll move it right now you’ll see that you are healed in Jesus Name. So, shalom Mishpochah yeah I told them I have the Holy Spirit interrupt me. I have on the telephone Dr. David Remedious and he’s different than any other doctor that I’ve ever met because he hears God’s voice. And sometimes God will tell him unique ways of doing surgery. He’s a vascular surgeon; if David had one life message to tell you he would tell you to get to know the Holy Spirit; get to know God’s voice. David as a young boy 13 years of age in the streets of Bronx, New York on your own; if you didn’t hear God’s voice I wouldn’t be speaking to you right now. Maybe you can give us a few tips on what we can do to be more sensitive to God’s voice and know that it’s God’s voice.
David: Absolutely and number 1 is I would know the word of God; know His word get it in your heart; get it in your mind; memorize it. The word of God says “The Holy Spirit will remind you of things that you have learned. It’s one thing in order to spend time in prayer; get alone with God. And most important to know you’ve gotten in the word; you’ve spend time in prayer but obey the word of God says “If you love Me you will obey my commandments.” And I believe in my life sometimes we know a lot about the word but were not obeying the word. So that will open up the avenue; it will open up the door to be sensitive to God; to hearing the voice of God; to being lead of the Holy Spirit.
Sid: Do you remember when I was in Louisiana and we got to meet in person at the Claudio Freidzon meeting at the Louisiana outpouring of which you’re one of the leaders. And it was a wonderful meeting and towards the end I said “David I want you to pray for me and you had a vision and you just told me about it and you saw a computer screen. And you said “I don’t know what it means but there’s a problem with your computers but it’s going to work out.” And I called you a few days later and I said “You know David I found out exactly what it was.” But here’s the thing David had you not said that I would not have looked in the area that I looked in and it was so helpful. I image that you’ve been hearing God’s voice and having visions since 13 years of age. I don’t know about you but when I hear of someone say to you I get so excited I heard God and God did what He said He was going to do.
Sid: And that’s the way it’s supposed to be but I get like a little child I just get absolutely excited when that happens to me.
David: Well, I don’t think it ever gets second hand or it never gets old. Every time it happens it’s to me it’s like the very first time that He ever did it. Or every time He speaks it’s as if it’s the first time that He’s ever spoken to me because I heart leaps; my heart leaps at the voice of Lord. Because His words are life; He brings joy; He brings peace; He brings reassurance I mean my word. (Laughing)
Sid: David you come from Cuban heritage and you’ve had opportunity to minister in Cuba; that’s been such a tough life for those people there. Does God show up when you minister in Cuba?
David: Oh, absolutely. First of all let me say that the fire first off of just being so difficult for believers to be in that environment and literally walk out their faith. And to put everything on the line; that’s just the way it goes. They dare to believe God and they have to literally walk in their faith; God shows up. And so when I go there honestly and I minister God shows up in the miraculous.
Sid: Give me an example.
David: Well, I was in a church in Havana a few years; a few years ago 3 or 4 years ago and there was a lady. There were many people on the streets, they were all over the place, on top of the building; on the side walls. They have such hunger for the word of God. Well the heart on a lady had literally gone into cardiopulmonary arrest an elderly lady; there were 2 men holding her up and they were beating on her chest. Well long story short my goodness I’m looking at them and one of them was punching her on the chest. And I’m going “That’s not cardiopulmonary resuscitation.” Long story short I tell them “Well, put them on the floor I’ll show you how to do CPR.” I said “I’m going to teach these Cubans how to do CPR you know. And again the voice of the Holy Spirit “Has it occurred to you to pray for her?” And I said “Well, I guess.” I did it just to get it out of the way (Laughing) I open up my eyes and the woman is sitting up staring at me. Well, the one that’s going to have a heart attack was me. I’m saying this because it’s not about us; it’s about Him. The presence of God was there; and all we are is just vessels and instruments and that’s all. Any recognition, honor and glory goes to Him. Do you understand what I’m saying. Brother Sid so when we recognize and we obey Him He does above and beyond anything that we could ask or either think. So he did it; she was staring at me; I mean. And in that meeting you know God does that over there all the time so everybody carried on. And I was (Laughing) I was dying, my God, my God wait a minute. And He was; but God they have such strong faith and God visits them all the time and that it just happens. I mean creative miracles that happen on that Island all the time. God moves in wonderful ways.
Sid: Let me ask you a question; miracles take place when you minister anywhere in the world. More so in the third world countries for most ministers; is that true for you?
David: Yes sir, that is correct.
Sid: And is it because of what you just pointed out that we’re so self-independent here in the states compared to the people in third world countries that aren’t 50% dependent on God 100% dependent on God.
David: Oh, I agree totally Sid; I believe that to the degree that we’re allowing Him to work is the degree that He will manifest. For instance I was discussing this morning one of my parents in my office and by the way she’s been totally healed of breast by the way. And totally and it was metastasized cancer free by a CAT scan but that’s another story. A long story but…
Sid: No, tell me the bottom line but how was she healed? Through surgery?
David: No but I didn’t have to do surgery on her. She had some chemo but it really was just try to reduce some of the tumor. But metastasize it just doesn’t heal like that. And gain the oncologist was extremely surprised. We can’t find any trace of this thing; but she had tumors she had primary breast cancer in each breast and she had it metastasized to her brain and I mean everywhere. And they repeated the cat-scan and she’s… there’s no trace to be found anywhere. She came to tell me the news she was rejoicing; she starting jumping up and down. (Laughing) But I believe that to the degree that we will give God the glory to the degree that He can manifest and He’s going to do what He’s going to do. And I’ve coined a term which I call spiritual kleptomaniac. I believe a kleptomaniac is someone that does not know what they’re stealing it’s a compulsive behavior. Well, I think that even myself at the one point if we’re ready to take the credit for what God is doing then God cannot really do the great signs and wonders He does. But I think in those countries they totally acknowledge God they have no recourse but God. So God takes all the credit so God can come and manifest Himself because there is no one that’s going to try to take the credit for what He’s doing they will give all the honor and glory to Him and to Him alone.
Sid: Well, Dr. David you certainly are taking no credit; you certainly are saying that anything good that happens from you is God over and over in everything you say. Therefore you qualify to pray for the woman that has a tumor in her breast that needs to be healed right now.
David: Yes, and now Father God in the Name of Jesus I pray that there will be Holy Spirit radiation literally going in an consuming every trace of tumor and tumors that are melting away from necks Lord, from an area in the anterior part of the tongue right now and another one in the base of the tongue. Someone struggling with Hodgkin’s disease. Father God we just ask Lord even in the sound of our voices that Your presence would go in. And Lord we will give You all the honor, glory and praise and all the recognition goes to Calvary and to You alone Jesus.
Sid: You know David I must interrupt you right now because of time constraints.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Pastor Bill Johnson. I’m speaking to him at his office in Bethel Church where he’s Senior Pastor in Redding, California. Under Bethel Church is the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. I want to find out from you in a few moments what happens when your students are turned lose what kind of results are they getting. But before that you have teaching in your book that is just revelation knowledge. For instance, I wonder if you would teach for just a little bit on the revelation God’s given you from the Lord’s Prayer.
Bill: I’d love to. The Lord’s Prayer really has two basic parts to it. The first part is Our Father who art in heaven hallow it be Thy Name. It begins with praise with thankfulness and praise and worship, it’s our ministry to God. The prayer ends with that “Thine is the Kingdom, the power the glory forever Amen.” It begins and ends with this ministry to God. But the second part of the prayer is “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” And that prayer is the absolute backbone for everything a Christian ever prays and everything a Christian ever does. The model for life and ministry here on earth is supposed to be heaven. When we pray that we are not praying for Jesus to return to take us away from the earth. He is saying pray “Your Kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is the heaven.” And the original language I am told it’s in a tense that basically means this “Kingdom of God come! Will of done be done!” It’s an imperative of a command, a charge if you will. And the Kingdom means “The Kings domain.” The Kings dominion, it’s wherever the King of Kings has dominion is realized. In somebodies body it brings healing; in somebody’s finances it brings blessing and increase. In somebody’s marriage it brings peace and harmony and unity and all those things. So there’s two parts of the prayer, there’s the worship expression and then there’s the prayer that models everything in this life after what happens in heaven. “On earth as it is in heaven.” Jesus then goes into specific aspects of our life. He talks about “They Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.” Heaven now becomes the model for my resources. Paul said this in Philippians where he said “Our provisions would be according to riches of glory in Christ Jesus.” That heaven becomes the model for the way I relate to my material world, to the physical things around me. On earth as it is in heaven affects how we relate to material things. So He says “Give us this day our daily bread, forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.” Now the reality of heaven is to affect the way that I relate to people and it’s to affect my relationship. And that’s a clear teaching of the Apostle Paul in the book of Ephesians and elsewhere. So now the reality of heaven affects our finances, the way we relate to the material world. How it affects our relationships and our forgiveness that we don’t hold bitterness or hostility towards people. We take on the spirit of reconciliation the beginning of every day to minister to people around us. And then the third part is “Do not lead us into temptation but deliver us from the evil one.” So now he is asking us to pray that the reality of heaven would affect the way that we relate to evil and the world of conflict around us. So heaven really is the model for everything that’s to happen on our life in earth. That’s why he goes on to say later, “That we’re to bind here what been already bound in heaven, we are to loose here what’s already loosed in heaven.” He teaches at the end of Matthew 6 that “We’re to seek first the Kingdom of God” We’re to seek first the dominion of God and His righteousness and all of these other things in life will be added to us. I have the conviction that he’s not saying “If I seek first the Kingdom then God will take care of those issues for me. I have the conviction that He’s saying “If you seek first the Kingdom you’ll discover that the Kingdom comes fully equipped. That God brings order into finances, into family, into the way we relate to temptation and the difficulties of life.” And the Kingdom is an absolute complete message and it was the message that Jesus left for us to carry.
Sid: Now I reminded a number of years ago you were praying a prayer that “I want more of You Lord at any cost.” Do you believe that if each one of us was to pray a prayer like that we would have more of God?
Bill: Absolutely, it’s impossible to pray and not move heaven. Any prayer that moves me is going to move Him. And if it’s something that I will be relentless in and make sure it’s not a casual prayer but it’s something that really moves me. It affects my life it’s impossible to pray and not get heard.
Sid: But you have to be really serious because you might say “Lord I want more of You at any cost but don’t tamper with this, this and this.”
Sid: It’s kind of like “No holds barred Lord.”
Bill: Yeah, exactly.
Bill: Exactly, you can’t put restrictions on Him.
Sid: And I happen to believe that this precise moment in history that there are anointing’s being poured out for people that are willing to pray a prayer of consecration like that.
Bill: You’re right absolutely right.
Sid: Tell me about the students in your Supernatural Ministry School. You take them out to see the poor they go into a nursing homes. Give me some examples of what’s going on with them.
Bill: They have different types of hobbies than when I grew up. Some of them will actually go down to emergency room of the hospital to find sick people to pray for. It’s not an organized outreach it’s just what they decide to do when they get together. And they sit in the emergency room; they look around the room and God gives them a word of knowledge for somebody. They go minister to them and that person begins to weep; they get their emotional part of life healed up God heals them physically, it’s amazing. They’ll drive down the street; the one God saying “God I want to just do whatever you want me to do.” And she was going to her friend’s house and the Lord spoke to her clearly and told her to drive straight. She was going to turn right, He said “Drive straight.” So she does and she looks on the side of the road and there’s a man there with a brace on his arm. So she pulled the car over because she remembered “There’s no braces on the arms in heaven so there shouldn’t be any here on earth. She pulls over to the side of the road, and asks the man…
Sid: Excuse me that’s a very important point isn’t it?
Bill: It’s how we live.
Sid: State that again.
Bill: “It’s on earth as it is in heaven.” She saw that there was a brace on the arm of a man; she was convicted over the fact that doesn’t exist in heaven, it’s not to exist here. That’s our commission. Our commission is “On earth as it is in heaven.” And we do it through the power of the gospel. So she pulled over the side of the road she said “Could I pray for you Sir?” And she had come to find out that the brace on his leg, right arm and right leg because he had a brain aneurism 11 years earlier. In about 10 minutes of prayer for both his arm and leg. He had both his braces off and was completely healed after 11 years of affliction from a brain aneurism. And there’s just… we call it a drive by shooting you know it’s just…
Sid: Tell me about in the book you talk about Jason and the guy on jury duty.
Bill: Yeah, yeah well these things are almost every day. I mean we could name so many stories. He’s in a jury he see a gentleman in a wheelchair and his cry is “On earth as it is in heaven.” So he goes over and begins to talk to the guy and ask if he can pray? And he says “What if I don’t stand up, what if I don’t get healed?” And Jason replied “What if you do?” And all that did was just cause him to have a spark of courage. Whenever that happens as you ministering to people that’s when you have to act quickly. So he quickly prayed and the man stood up in front of about probably about 100 people in the room. Waved his arms around and hadn’t been able to do anything of that nature for years. And our young man then spoke out in front of everyone “God is here to heal.” And before it was all said and done there was a couple of others that received a miracle in their body.
Sid: Now explain to me what you mean “When that spark comes you have to move quickly.”
Bill: Well, I had a guy in my office that had broken his back it was very very serious physical problems and we were talking about something else. And I asked him “What’s up with your back?” And he told me “I know that God will probably like to heal me but I just get in the way.” And I said “Oh, you’re not big enough.” And all I did was cause him to doubt his doubt he didn’t doubt his unworthiness. He didn’t move into faith, but it just rocked his world enough that I had to jump in quickly and pray before he started reasoning through this thing again. People create mental offenses to block God from moving and it’s important when we see that wall drop to step in their quickly and pray the prayer of faith. So I did and the Lord did an amazing miracle on his back. He was completely healed and he walked out muttering to himself “I can’t do this” as he would continue to bend over and touch the ground. So we try to act quickly when we see… not that a person necessarily moves in faith, but if they can just get out that being controlled by that spirit of unbelief we have a real opportunity to serve them.
Sid: You know I happen to believe because I have your book right in front of me that someone that reads you book and does what it says will get the same types of results as your students. I really believe that.
Bill: Oh absolutely, we see it happen all over the world.
Sid: You know I’ve interviewed Heidi Baker and this woman her ministry is so sensational. I mean so many people have been raised from the dead not just her praying others under her praying for it. But this is what she says about your book “In his book ‘When Heaven Invades Earth’ Bill Johnson shows people who are desperate for more in their Christian life that all things are possible to those who live immersed in the Holy Spirit. This book is a must read for all people who desire to walk in the supernatural realm of the Holy Spirit in their everyday life. I was so touched by the Lord as I read it my faith exploded; I could hardly put it down.”